Oct. 10, 2025
S11, Chapter 3: Murder Mac
No credits this week because I didn't want to delay this episode any longer. For their plan to work, Larry Bittaker knew they couldn’t rely on just any car. They needed something bigger… something that could trap a victim inside. In February of 1979,...
No credits this week because I didn't want to delay this episode any longer.
For their plan to work, Larry Bittaker knew they couldn’t rely on just any car. They needed something bigger… something that could trap a victim inside. In February of 1979, with money from Norris, he bought it—a silver-gray 1977 GMC Vandura.
The van was windowless on one side, with a sliding door large enough to swallow someone whole. Bittaker later admitted that when he first saw that door, he knew. They could pull up close to a girl, slide it open, and drag her inside without anyone noticing.
The pair gave the vehicle a name. To them, it wasn’t just a van. It was their “Murder Mac.”
—
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WEBVTT
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Tapes from the Dark Side contains descriptions of violence and sexuality.
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Listener discretion is advised.
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October fifteenth, nineteen seventy eight, Lawrence Bittaker walked out of
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the California Men's Colony of Free Man. He drifted back
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to Los Angeles, slipping seamlessly into civilian life. With his
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skills as a machinist, he was soon earning nearly one
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thousand dollars a week, a small fortune for his time.
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To neighbors, he didn't look like a threat. He was
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a quiet man down the street who kept to himself,
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but also the one who would lend a hand when needed.
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Some even saw him as generous. He'd donated to the
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Salvation Army, buy bags of fast food and bottles of wine,
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and then hand him out to the homeless on skid row.
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On the surface, Lawrence Bittaker the picture of rehabilitation, But
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beneath that carefully crafted facade, something far darker was beginning
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to take shape. January fifteenth, nineteen seventy nine, just three
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months after Laurence Bittaker's release, Roy Norris walked out of
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prison as well. He moved back into his mother's home
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in Redondo Beach, but freedom didn't bring reform. Within a month,
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Norris had already attacked again, raping a woman, then leaving
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her lone and terrified in the desert. By day, he
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blended in working as an electrician in Compton, but soon
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a letter arrived. It was from Lawrence Bittaker. Weeks later,
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the two men met at a hotel. Old prison acquaintances reunited,
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and in that meeting they breathed new life into a
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plan they had whispered about behind bars, a plan to stalk, kidnap,
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and rape young girls in Burbank. Norris's hotel room became
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something of a hangout spot, especially for local teenagers. He
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always seemed to have a steady supply of beer in
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marijuana on hand. Later he would admit to the truth
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the drugs and alcohol weren't for him, not really, They
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were baits, a way to make sure his rooms stayed
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popular with teens. One of those young girls who would
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hang out in Bittaker's motel room was named Tina, a
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woman who was tracked down by Laura Brand, the so
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called serial killer whisperer who we've been hearing from this
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season now. Tina was always with her boyfriend Steve when
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she was at the motel, and this kind of drove
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Larry crazy. He wanted her isolated to himself. The interview
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you're about to hear was recorded just prior to Tina's
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passing in June of twenty twenty three, and again it
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was featured on the podcast Partners in True Crime.
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He was hanging around the hotel, Like I said, the
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group I just told you about was usually who I
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was rip going around over there.
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Steve. I never left Steve's side, you know.
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Yeah, did you guys all go to like the same
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high school?
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Me and Dina Steve? I know Steve wasn't going to
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high school. He dropped out.
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Steve's mom kicked him out at sixteen, just before all
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this happened, and my mom took him in. So he
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was living with us at the time this happened. Wow,
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because there was, like I said, a group of us
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could be fifteen to twenty of us just in Burbank
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that all knew each other, and you know, we party
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in the park and you know, in different groups I
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guess would go party over there at the hotel.
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Michael was the one who told me that story about Steve.
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I like one day Bittaker said to him, he goes,
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do you want to write home or something? He asked
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him for write home, and he said. It scared the
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shit out of Steve because he drove him up he
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said San Dimas, but I think it was San Gabriel,
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and he just didn't say a word to him, got
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out of the car, just pointed a gun at him,
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and then just got right back in and drove him home.
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Yeah, because Steve's mom at that time lived up in
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Sunline and Sunlin to Hunga, and so at that time
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Steve would go back and forth from now staying at
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my house and sometimes going to his mom's. It wasn't
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San Gabriel Mountain. It was Sana San Andreas Mountain, Angela's
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Crest up in that area. I'm sorry, It's like I'm
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shaking inside, you know, but that's the mountains.
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He took him up into us. That I was told
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by Steve.
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Because it was close to Steve's mom's house, he was
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able to take him. He took him up there and
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spirits shit.
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Out of him.
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Wow.
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Yeah, uh, I'm you know it ruins Steve.
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Yeah, I bet I absolutely.
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Ruined his life. It ruined my marriage.
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Do you think that's what happened? Is like he was
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just so scarred from like Bittaker, it just.
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Oh yeah, he'd come home after testifying.
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You gotta remember he was like sixteen, maybe seventeen by
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the time the childs are. I don't remember. He was
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a kid.
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We were kids, and he used to come home and
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I just hold him for hours while he would cry.
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Oh my god, you know, I mean I believe in
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court they had a play part of that tape again
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because they had a verify that's the troops he heard.
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Oh my god.
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I was pretty horrific what we went through. I mean,
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it took me years. I used to run if I
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saw a silver van.
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Oh, I could just imagine.
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Yeah, it was about because he didn't like me, and
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I knew it, and.
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He let me know he didn't like me.
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Really, he like really made it known to you.
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Yeah, in his I don't even know how to you
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were you've been in a room with him.
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Yeah, he has I don't even know how to put it.
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He has a way to get in your head. Yeah,
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he doesn't have to say something. You could read what
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he's telling you in his eyes.
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You know, I've actually pushed some buttons and seem like
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that anger come out of him.
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Yeah, got angry at me.
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I uh, well, I'm Italian, so I do have him
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about the kid back then, I you know did I
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was a smart kid, but I did speak my what
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I spoke my mind. And I do remember pissing him
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off several times. And I remember he got so mad
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one time and he said, you're grounded and you can't
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come back to here for a week or whatever, you know,
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two weeks whatever it was that he got really red.
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You know, Yeah, I was scary, it was. It was scary.
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Well you said about when he went up to Dina
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and did the modeling roots like he that was like
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their number one rooms was the modeling stuff.
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And my mom educated me on you know, I mean,
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we had so many serial killers running around in that
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area of California at that time. You know at that
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time that you know, if you were a smart parent,
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you better educate your kids, especially your girls, your younger
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teen preteen or teen girls. Great, and my mom did
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you don't go walk by yourself at night. My mom
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taught me that it wasn't just about not getting in
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the car with strangers, but look.
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In the end I did.
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I Actually, my mom almost died from a heart attack
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when they found me, Dina and Steven penciling, and they
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called our parents, see we were missing.
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And that's when Larry got busted and our parents thought
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that he killed us because we were gone and missing.
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Oh my god.
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So actually there was another girl that traveled with us.
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Her name was Andrea, Andrea Durgan. But she I don't
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think she ever went around Larry. She just happened to
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want to trail along with us. And she was only
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all of twelve, but she looked like she may have
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been fifteen or sixteen body wise. And her poor mom
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did drop of a heart attack when they police from
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Pittsburgh called her and said we found your daughter. She
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died of just because they thought we were dead, that
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he got us.
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Oh my god.
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Yeah. Oh I've kind even begin to tell you. And
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I mean ironically, you know, my mom kept me as
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protected as she could for media and stuff like that.
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And as the years went, well, every time Larry came
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up for an appeal, you know, we all went on
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with our lives and got married and had children, and
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we all moved and they always found us, you know,
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whatever it was every I think he had two or
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three appealsskus me appeals and they would find us. Next thing,
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you know, there's an LA District attorney again at our
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doors and having us relive it, you know, because there's appeal.
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It was his peal was coming.
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Oh, I know.
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During this interview that Laura does with Tina, Laura Brand
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herself begins to open up a little bit about her
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investigation into Larry and Roy and I found this fascinating,
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so I decided to leave it in. It gives us
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some background about Laura and what she was going through
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at this time in her life.
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You know.
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It's so I started. So it was about so in June,
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and this year it'll be two years. And when I
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started the investigation, ah, so I went. I had been
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interviewing Bittaker Norris for about like five years, and ironically,
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which is so kind of weird, I got pregnant and
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the boyfriend I was living with I was like madly
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in love and he didn't want the baby, and then
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he tried to force me to get an abortion. I
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wanted to do it, so he kicked me out and
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I literally had about like two grand to my name,
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and he was trying. When he tried to scare me
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into an abortion, he said, you know, you just wasted
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your degree. You're never going to become a forensic psychologist.
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You'll never write a book, You'll never be able to
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go to San Quentin and do your interviews anymore. Like
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your career's over. So I took the last of my
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money and I flew out to San Francisco for six
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weeks and I was like, Okay, I'm going to interview
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three different serial killers, and I had picked bitager. It was.
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He was one of the first interviews I went in for,
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and at the time, I was like seven and a
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half months pregnant, and I was like really showing. And
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it was just so bizarre too, because like the three
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years prior I had gone in and I had interviewed
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him before, and I had written to him and I
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had tried to get him to call me, and he
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was just so vicious towards me. He didn't like me,
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he didn't want to talk to me. And but it
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was so weird when I got pregnant, all of a sudden,
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he started calling my cell phone every single day. Then
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when I went in and he saw me pregnant, it
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was the weirdest freaking thing. It was like a one
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eighty turn from like being vicious and just cruel and mean.
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And he it was five minutes in the interview. He
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grabbed the pen in the paper out of my hand
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because I was like asking questions and taking notes, grabs
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out of my hand, and he started drawing a map
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of the mountains of where Cindy and Andrea, the two
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victims that were never found. And I was just like
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a holy shit. And then he's drawing me a map
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of where the buried evidence was and it was just,
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I mean, it was like a movie. Like as I
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ran out of the prison afterwards, and I called a
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criminologist and was like I don't know what to do,
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Like what what the hell do I do? And he's like,
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go the FBI. The FBI was closed, So then he came.
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He said, call the district attorney, which was Stephen Kay.
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So I got a number for him and I started
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calling him, and he like didn't even believe me. He's like,
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he hasn't spoken in forty years, he's never given up
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that information. This is But finally I started calling Stephen.
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Talking to Stephen, he realized I wasn't like insane like Bittager.
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It actually he is like the nicest person in the
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god oh my god, yeah he really, he's so sweet
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and he's been helping me, like step by step on all.
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Yeah.
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Yeah, he's literally been walking me through everything because I'm like,
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this is so much to take in and he's like,
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I told you, lord, it's a rabbit hole of a case.
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That I was like, it really freaking is. And just
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by chance, I like Bitteger had mentioned Robin Roebeck, who's
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like the sole survivor, and for some reason, I just
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went on Facebook and I was like, I'm just going
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to type her name in, even though it might be
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like a maiden name, and I found her and I
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sent her a message and I don't even know what
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to say. I was like, I don't know if you're
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the right person, but I'm trying to track down somebody
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who was a witness and a case from nineteen seventy nine.
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And it was like two hours later she texted me
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