S7, Chapter 3: Confession

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You actually you wanted to do this
to cover victims stories, and you really

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weren't sure if you were, and
you really didn't think you were going to

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cover Jacob's case in the beginning.
Is that right? Yeah, that's right.

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I didn't want to talk about it. It's something that is extremely traumatic

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for me and my family. It's
a situation that is the worst situation that

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we've ever had as a family,
and so it was not something that I

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was excited to do. I created
the show in honor of Jacob because I

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wanted to help people who were in
the same situation as my family and I,

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so initially I wasn't going to do
Jacob's story at all. Can you

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tell me about your decision to cover
Jacob's case. Was there something a specific

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event that caused you to want to
cover his case? Yeah? I was

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talking to the mom of a murder
victim. Her name was Amanda. Her

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teenage son and his best friend were
taken out into the desert and brutally murdered.

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She came on the show to talk
about the case, talk about her

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fight for justice, and we were
having a conversation and I said to her

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something along the lines of, whatever
you ignore you allowed to continue, and

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if you're not willing to talk about
these things, then you can't expect them

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to change. I strive really hard
to not be a hypocrite, So when

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I said that, I kind of
felt like I slapped myself in the face

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and decided in that moment that I
was going to I was going to be

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true to that. I'm not just
going to say something like that and not

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be true to it. So as
soon as that interview was over, I

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called my mom and I asked her
if she wanted to be interviewed on the

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podcast to talk about Jacob, because
I thought it would be a good opportunity

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for us to one finally have a
conversation about something we've never talked about,

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and two, hopefully it would create
some kind of catharsis for us to have

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that kind of off of our shoulders. And then the third goal was maybe

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it could help some other people who
are maybe in a similar situation, or

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might help somebody avoid a similar situation. So those were kinds of the things

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going on in my mind. Of
course, I wanted justice for Jacob,

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but at that point I was really
feeling like it wasn't possible. Tapes from

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the Dark Side contains descriptions of violence
and sexuality. Listener discretion is advised from

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Sergeant Garcia, polygraph examiner for the
Apartment of Public Safety, State Police Division,

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New Mexico, dated July thirty first, nineteen eighty seven. Prior to

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John's pretest, he was made aware
of his constitutional rights under Miranda and he

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signed the appropriate form. The following
relevant questions were posed to John. Question

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thirty three, did you intentionally strike
Jacob in the head area on April ninth,

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nineteen eighty seven? Answer no.
Question thirty five, did you intentionally

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strike the baby in the head area
before he went limp? Answer no.

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Based on the numerical evaluation of John's
graph recordings, I Sergeant Garcia conclude that

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John was not being truthful when he
answered no to the relevant questions. Sergeant

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Garcia continues during postest interrogation, I
pointed out his physiological reactivity to the relevant

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questions, which reflected untruthfulness. John
continued to deny any action on his part

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which contributed to the child's death.
Following an extensive discussion, John subsequently admitted

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to being untruthful with investigators when they
initially questioned him regarding the circumstances surrounding Jacob's

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death. John alleges that at the
time he was questioned, he had been

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sedated to the extent that his mental
faculties were impaired. John attributed his untruthfulness

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to fear of rejection by his girlfriend, Brenda Lundean, the child's mother.

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He expressed regret that the mother would
now learn the truthful facts inasmuch as he

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felt the death had been accidental.
And then in the reports we get another

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version of the events of the night
of April ninth. Quote. John explained

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that on April ninth, nineteen eighty
seven, he was caring for Jacob awaiting

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the arrival of Brenda Lundean. The
child was in a standing position, holding

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himself onto the wooden armrest of a
chair in the living room. John alleges

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that he knelt beside him, angled
his chin in a playful position to rub

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his growth of beard between the child's
legs. While doing so, he sensed

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the child was about to lose his
balance, and he abruptly raised his head

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to prevent Jacob from falling. Instead, Jacob leaned his body over John's head

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as John raised his head, which
forcefully moved the child off his feet,

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causing him Jacob, to impact heavily
on the floor. John further explained he

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was certain that the child's head struck
the wooden arm rest before he fell to

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the floor. Immediately after the baby
fell, John picked him up and held

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him in his arms for what he
approximated to have been ten minutes. During

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this time, the child did not
exhibit any visible indications of being injured.

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However, he did appear to be
drowsy. John at this point decided to

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put the child to bed and began
walking towards the bedroom. At this point

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in John's story we get the part
that we've already heard. While he's carrying

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Ja, he hears his cassette tape
click. He puts Jacob on the couch,

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and when he returns from attending to
his cassettes, he finds Jacob on

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the floor, and at this point
is when John alleges that Jacob began to

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convulse and regurgitate from both his mouth
and nostrils. He says that he put

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him over his forearm and patted his
back to try to clear his air passages,

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and then he says something quite bizarre. John says he held the child

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upside down from both feet and continued
patting his back. When the child lost

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consciousness, John panicked and ran with
the child to seek assistance from the next

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door neighbor. Medical assistance was then
summoned. John's polygraph examination was sound recorded

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in its entirety and is available for
transcription if necessary. Case status active.

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Immittedly, I'm not a childcare expert. I took a basic CPR class back

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in high school and babysat had a
few times for neighbors, but I'm not

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a medical expert in any sense.
But I have never heard that when a

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child is choking or seems unwell to
hold them upside down by their legs and

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pat their back, Even in nineteen
eighty seven, that seems like a bizarre

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response, especially considering that John had
two children of his own, so he

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wasn't a complete stranger to caring for
children. I also want to note that

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even though the records say that John's
polygraph exam was sound recorded, the sound

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recording was lost and there is no
transcription. And again we're faced with what

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seems to be another case of incompetence
by the Sakoro Police Department. What happened

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after this polygraph examination is hard to
comprehend, and that is nothing. John

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was not arrested, no charges were
filed in Jacob, at least when it

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came to the to system was essentially
forgotten. Brenda was suspicious that John had

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killed her child, but police never
prosecuted him, and she went against her

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better judgment and stayed in the relationship. She even went on to marry him.

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At first, I was both confused
and upset upon hearing this, But

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now that I know the full story
behind Brenda and John's relationship, I think

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I can understand the choices she made. John was not some bum that she

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found on the side of the street. He was a close friend of hers,

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going all the way back to childhood, and she had every reason to

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believe that he was telling the truth, and very little reason to believe that

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he had been the one to kill
Jacob. Firstly, he had no history

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of abusing his own kids. Second, he rather skillfully pinned the blame on

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Eric. Immittedly, even myself,
with all the information in retrospect, suspected

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that maybe Eric had done something to
Jacob. But now I don't believe Eric

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ever intentionally or Jacob. Aside from
that one kick in the head, which

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I think was more of a reaction, And just to be clear, I

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don't think there's evidence that shows that
that played any part in Jacob's death.

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And the last reason why I can
understand why Brenda stayed with John is again

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that the police never made an arrest. They never brought charges in de facto

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basically declared him innocent of the murder. But there was one more reason that

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Brenda stayed with John. She hoped
that maybe in staying close to him,

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she could find out exactly what happened
on that night, because even though she

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had the story from John, she
believed that there was important information missing.

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So what happened next was a little
bit challenging for me to understand because I

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was so young. But my mom
ended up staying with her boyfriend at the

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time and things just got from there. So we'll go back to the conversation

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I had with my mom to talk
about this so you can hear exactly what

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happened after Jacob died. I'm not
really comfortable asking these questions because I know

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whatever you want to know him,
I'm willing to answer it. I know.

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I just don't want you to feel
like I I don't blame you for

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anything that you did. I know, and I don't feel bad. Just

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whatever you want to know, just
ask me, because I'm not gonna take

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it like like you think I am. I just have to get the story

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out, you know, and so
you have to know. That's why I'm

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willing to talk to you. Why
did you stay with him after that?

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The only thing that I cared about
is finding out what happened to my son.

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I didn't care about anything else.
I just wanted to know the truth.

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I wanted to know what happened to
Jacob. And if I would have

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ever known he was like that,
I would have never ever ever been around

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him that I didn't know. He
hit it so good. He told me

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everything I wanted to hear. He
was so charming and such a colun artist

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that I really thought he loved me. He didn't love me. He just

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wanted to use me. And you
know, keep that over my head for

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three years. He abused me.
He put a knife to my throat.

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He said the only way I was
going to get away from him would be

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in a body bag. I didn't
know what was going on or what happened

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or all I kept saying is it
was an accident. It was an accident,

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and meet me at the graveyard so
I could talk to you. Why

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am I going to meet him at
the graveyard when he put my son in

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the graveyard? Yeah, you know, I'm thinking he's going to kill me

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over there. Well I read that
in the investigative report, and I thought

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it was really weird that he I
mean even for him, not just once,

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but over and over and over anyone. I mean to go meet him

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aout the graveyard to talk to him
at the graveyard. That's so creepy,

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Like that is sick. Yeah.
Who murders somebody and then tries to take

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the mother of the child you murdered
to the grave of the kid? That

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don't make sense at all. That's
just like what. I can't even understand

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that. I'm not a psychologist or
anything, but I just I always try

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to figure you know, I always
try to think about that, like what

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what what logic is it? I
can't there's no logic in it. Yeah,

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I think I wanted to kill me. I still think he wants to

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kill me. But I'm going to
speak my choes. Not much for what

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for Jacob pet never a voice,
and he deservice one, and I couldn't

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for the longest time even talk about
it. John's behavior became increasingly erratic after

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Jacob's death. As I've said before, the guilty conscience speaks whether we wanted

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to or not. And John's actions
over the next few years were not just

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strange, but became physically and sexually
violent. He began verbally and physically assaulting

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Brenda, and he began sexually abusing
Eric. When did he start hitting you?

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After Jacob died? Everything changed after
I don't know what. He told

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me that he had to get married
to me because he filed some kind of

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papers and he was going to go
to prison and big old story. I

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don't know what it was, but
he economy into marrying him. I married

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him with the JP after all of
it was over, I wouldn't ask the

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judge for in a moment, and
I was granted one because it was so

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violent that nobody deserves that is what
the judge said. So it's erased every

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years after the fact. Though that
wasn't those three years. It was from

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eighty seven until nineteen ninety. After
Jacob died, things started changing, you

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know. I mean, he was
obviously he was hitting you, and I

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remember I think we were still on
the other side of the freeway. We

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were still kind of in that same
neighborhood where we lived in Jacob died because

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I think it was we were living
in a single wide at that time before

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we got the double wide, right, And I remember one day we were

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going to go somewhere as a family
with it was like you, me,

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his kids, him and you guys
were fighting the night before when you were

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all like black and blue. Yeah, bruises on your arms, your eye

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was black. I remember we were
all lined up almost like like we're in

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the military, all four of us. And he was walking back and forth

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and he said, if somebody asks
what happened to your mom, what are

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you going to say? Over and
over and over again until I said this

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answer that he wanted, and until
it was perfect, and until he believed

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me, And I almost felt like
he was kind of like brainwashing us.

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He would like get in my face
and be like, if you fuck this

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up, I'm going to kill your
mom. Kill your mom your like real

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quiet so that even his kids couldn't
hear it. But he was like right

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in front of my face. There's
a lot of things that happened that I

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never told you because he always threatened
to kill us, and I believed him.

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I YEA, believe them. Your
brother's in the grave. I knew

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he was definitely capable of it.
Like there were times when when it was

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just him and I know his kids
were with their mom and you were at

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work or something. This was like
in the double wide on Main Street.

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I wouldn't be allowed to leave my
room all day, Like I couldn't even

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go to the bathroom. And I
remember I had all this stuff in my

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room, And at first I thought
I was like, oh, I'm a

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lucky kid. I have a TV
ab and Nintendo. I have a refrigerator.

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I have all this stuff in my
room that most kids don't have.

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But I think that was his way
of imprisoning me. Try to make you

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a hostage. Yeah, And so
I would have to knock on my door

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and I'd have to ask for permission
to the restroom. And if he felt

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like I didn't really need to go, then I didn't get to go.

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I didn't know that it gets worse. I'm sorry, it's a lot worse.

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And I didn't tell you, not
because I didn't trust you. But

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because I coudn't want you to fucking
die. You know, one time he

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locked me in my closet and he
put the dining chair against the door so

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I couldn't get out of it because
he was mad about something. I don't

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remember what it was, but I
couldn't even be in my room. I

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had to be in the closet.
I just I never told you. I

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feel bad about that. But I
also didn't want us to get killed either.

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So I was trying to save our
lives at least it's what I felt

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like. And I remember always feeling
like like we were walking on egg shells.

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I mean, do you remember when
he would get mad if I gave

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him what he thought was dirty?
Look? Yeah, if I would clean

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the bedroom. It was cycle just
anything any little wrong movement, say something

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wrong, you'd do something wrong.
Every help breaks loose. We I mean

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we didn't. I don't feel like
we really did anything wrong ever, you

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00:18:18.640 --> 00:18:21.359
know what I mean, Like,
I don't feel like we did not seem

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to deserve that. Yeah, he's
the one with the problem. I mean

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00:18:26.519 --> 00:18:29.680
there were times where he'd be like, stop looking at me like that,

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and then I would just look down, and so I spent a lot of

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00:18:33.799 --> 00:18:37.799
that time just looking at the floor
because I was afraid that if I even

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00:18:37.839 --> 00:18:41.920
just looked at him, that he
was gonna start beating the shit out of

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you, and then I would get
locked in my room and you know what

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I mean, like it was gonna
be the same shit. It wasn't even

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00:18:48.200 --> 00:18:52.200
about you, it was just anything
I did. It wasn't it was if

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he felt guilty, he would come
home and beat on me because of what

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he was doing wasn't even like nothing
to do with us. I think the

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00:19:00.279 --> 00:19:04.119
point though, is that like we
never knew what was going to send him

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over the edge. Yeah, it
literally could be anything or nothing. Sometimes

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it's hard to react to a psychopath. It's hard to be prepared because you

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never know. I mean, it
explains a lot of why we're both the

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00:19:22.359 --> 00:19:25.519
way that we are. In a
lot of ways. You know, we're

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00:19:25.640 --> 00:19:30.920
very we can both be very reactive
and very emotional about things, and it

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00:19:30.960 --> 00:19:36.720
makes sense that we would have those
reactions because we couldn't even fucking look at

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00:19:36.799 --> 00:19:40.440
him. Yeah, I can't even
move without where you're going? What'd you

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00:19:40.519 --> 00:19:51.559
doing? Or like even just like
the way I ate many sing And I

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00:19:51.599 --> 00:19:57.440
think that really caused me to have
a lot of hatred for myself because I

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felt like I was bad and damaged
and wrong, and I started like I

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00:20:03.599 --> 00:20:11.400
started to believe that I slept with
I had a can of aquainette and a

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lighter and a steak knife under my
pillow and a bat under my bed.

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That's scary, but I knew I
needed to do something to protect myself.

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The story of how Eric saved his
mother's life coming up after the break.

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I don't know if you remember this
one time. It was like the middle

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of the afternoon and he had locked
me and his kids in our room and

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00:21:00.359 --> 00:21:04.359
he was beating the shot out of
you for a long time, and then

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00:21:06.279 --> 00:21:11.160
you stopped screaming. Yeah, I
remember, and I broke out of my

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00:21:11.319 --> 00:21:18.920
room through the window. I busted
the screaming window out, and I started

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00:21:18.920 --> 00:21:23.640
throwing rocks at your room window.
You're saving my life. She was choking

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00:21:23.720 --> 00:21:29.359
me with the wire hanger because I
kept telling him I was gonna leave.

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00:21:30.640 --> 00:21:34.839
I choked me to I almost best. And when you jumped out the window,

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go to the house with me.
And that's the only thing let's saved

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00:21:41.359 --> 00:21:48.759
my life that I remember. He
chased me out of the house, and

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00:21:48.839 --> 00:21:51.319
I ran across the street to the
neighbors because I was friends with that little

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00:21:51.319 --> 00:21:53.039
boy. And I was like banging
on their door. I'm like, let

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00:21:53.039 --> 00:21:56.119
me in. He's gonna kill me. Let me He's gonna kill me.

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They pulled me inside. They already
knew what was happening. They had two

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00:22:00.680 --> 00:22:06.359
ice creams. Loud is like good. Nobody would ever help. But she

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00:22:06.480 --> 00:22:10.319
pulled me in the house, and
she loved me. At her parents,

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00:22:10.799 --> 00:22:15.400
we all got along. She used
to go read to the little boy,

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00:22:15.960 --> 00:22:22.720
You're a good kid. After nearly
four years of increasingly erratic and abusive behavior

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00:22:22.799 --> 00:22:27.640
from John, in nineteen ninety one, Brenda made one of the best decisions

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00:22:27.640 --> 00:22:33.240
of her life when she left John
for good. There was a pivotal incident

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00:22:33.279 --> 00:22:37.039
that occurred in November of nineteen ninety
that Brenda states helped her make this decision

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00:22:37.160 --> 00:22:41.759
for good and for all, and
it might have saved her life and Eric's

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00:22:41.799 --> 00:22:45.759
life. In the fall of that
year, nineteen ninety, Brenda discovered that

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John was making sexual advances on her
thirteen year old niece. From the police

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00:22:49.559 --> 00:22:56.880
report, here's what Brenda told police. On November nineteenth, nineteen ninety,

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00:22:56.160 --> 00:23:00.839
John called Brenda's niece, who was
thirteen years of age, and kept telling

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00:23:00.839 --> 00:23:03.119
her she was pretty and that he
watches her when she is at his house.

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He also said that she knows that
he is watching her. Brenda stated

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00:23:08.599 --> 00:23:12.799
as she confronted John and that he
denied doing it, but that he doesn't

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remember, possibly because he was stoned. Brenda stated that is when she left

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00:23:18.839 --> 00:23:22.440
him for good. John was questioned
by police about this incident. The report

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00:23:22.480 --> 00:23:26.319
says, quote the suspects stated that
he does not think that he did this.

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00:23:27.000 --> 00:23:30.480
He stated that on the day in
question, he had smoked weed placed

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00:23:30.519 --> 00:23:37.920
with cocaine and that he doesn't remember
calling anyone. So she was fourteen thirteen

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00:23:38.680 --> 00:23:42.599
and he was making like leude calls, was calling her and telling her to

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00:23:42.599 --> 00:23:47.119
come over when all at work,
and he thinks she's so pretty. And

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00:23:47.200 --> 00:23:51.759
I get mad at him because he's
always staring at her and all this garbage.

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00:23:52.359 --> 00:23:57.160
But she's she's my little savior because
she told me, and she told

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00:23:57.240 --> 00:24:03.359
him in his face. She was
very outspoken, happy for my family.

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00:24:04.359 --> 00:24:08.519
Yeah, yeah, she didn't care. She told me right there from the

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00:24:08.599 --> 00:24:12.200
God and everybody. And that's what
you need is somebody to help you get

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00:24:12.240 --> 00:24:18.000
out before they kill you. Yeah, it's somebody that's going to stand up

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00:24:18.000 --> 00:24:19.599
and tell you the truth in front
of their face. And then I just

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00:24:19.680 --> 00:24:25.359
don't care how her high water is
coming out. I think she saved both

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00:24:25.359 --> 00:24:30.680
of us. She did. I
don't even know she knows she does because

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00:24:30.680 --> 00:24:33.599
she went with me when I loved
him, because I took the cup and

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00:24:33.640 --> 00:24:37.480
I took her and I took my
sister, and that's all I needed.

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00:24:37.559 --> 00:24:42.160
One of the primary motivators that Brenda
gave for staying with John after Jacob's death

287
00:24:42.480 --> 00:24:47.119
was to try to find out the
truth behind what really happened the night Jacob

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00:24:47.160 --> 00:24:51.759
died. And I think finally Brenda
realized the truth was in front of her

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00:24:51.799 --> 00:24:57.279
all along, her worst fears were
true. John had beaten Jacob to death.

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In nineteen ninety one, Brenda left
John for good and went to the

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00:25:04.599 --> 00:25:11.000
police, and finally the police seemed
to listen. Coming up in the finale

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00:25:11.160 --> 00:25:15.640
part four Tapes from the Dark Side, a warrant for rest was issued for

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00:25:15.759 --> 00:25:37.160
John on August thirteenth, nineteen ninety
two. Thank you for listening to Tapes

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00:25:37.200 --> 00:25:41.000
from the Dark Side. I've been
your host. TZ You can get access

295
00:25:41.039 --> 00:25:45.519
to the last episode in this series
right now by joining Patreon, or you

296
00:25:45.559 --> 00:25:49.759
can wait and it will be released
next week. All of our episodes our

297
00:25:49.759 --> 00:25:55.960
early release on Patreon and our ad
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298
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after shows. Every single dollar we
get on Patreon makes a huge difference to

299
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me in the show, and I
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300
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If you want to sign up,
it only takes about one minute. Go

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to patreon dot com slash Tapes from
the dark Side. Now, I want

302
00:26:17.559 --> 00:26:22.359
to to share with you another show
that I would recommend. It's called Crimatorium

303
00:26:22.400 --> 00:26:26.920
and I've been listening to their show
this week. It's actually an excellent show.

304
00:26:26.519 --> 00:26:30.880
If you like true crime, I
know you will enjoy it. The

305
00:26:30.920 --> 00:26:36.279
episode that really got to me was
the Death Row series and the case was

306
00:26:36.400 --> 00:26:41.839
called the Sad Case of Faith in
Liberty. Battaglia, I think I'm saying

307
00:26:41.839 --> 00:26:45.519
that right, Battaglia. It's about
a thirty minute episode, excellent content,

308
00:26:47.079 --> 00:26:48.920
and I'm going to put a link
to that in the show notes. Just

309
00:26:49.000 --> 00:26:55.960
search in your podcast app Crimatorium or
search them up on YouTube. This particular

310
00:26:56.000 --> 00:27:00.480
episode has one hundred and twenty two
thousand views and it deserves every single one

311
00:27:00.480 --> 00:27:10.799
of those views, it's an excellent
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312
00:27:10.839 --> 00:27:15.240
Crime resides. If you like lesser
known true crime cases such as murder,

313
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missing persons, unsolved mysteries, and
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314
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from your favorite podcast app. Join
me in the place where crime resides.

315
00:27:41.200 --> 00:27:45.279
I had to open the bruise up
and let some of the blues blood come

316
00:27:45.319 --> 00:27:51.400
out to show them