S7, BONUS: My full conversation with Eric

0:05 Tomorrow is thirty six years since Jacob died April tenth, so he would have been thirty six, almost thirty seven years old. It makes me think about what his life might be like had he lived, you know, would it be an uncle. I think that's the part that hurts the most, you know, is thinking about what could have been. The Dark Side contains descriptions of violence and sexuality. Listener discretion is advised. This episode is the last bit of audio I have for you in the Jacob Jeremiah Lundeen case, but I like to think I've saved the best for last. It's my full unedited interview with Eric Carter lundein the Older Brother of Jacob. As you know, if you've heard the season. If you haven't, i'd recommend go back and

1:37 listen to the full season and listen to the interview that he did with his mother that's also on our feed. You may have already heard a little bits and pieces of this interview in the episode, and that's because I actually interviewed Eric before the full season was out. This is when I called up Eric and had some very important questions I needed to ask him. Eric has become one of my dear podcasting friends, and I would really appreciate it if you go subscribe to his show. It's called True Consequences, and it's one of the absolute best victim focused true crime pods out there. In fact, it doesn't even need a qualifier. It's one of the best true crime pods out there. So go subscribe to True Consequences today, And without further ado, here is the full conversation that I had with Eric carter lundein Welcome to the Tapes from the dark Side after show. My guest today is Eric carter lundein from the podcast True Consequences. This episode was about his experience losing his brother, and I appreciate you coming on and talking with us. To Eric, thank you so much. It's an honor to be here. Tz. And as I was just telling Eric, there are parts of this small snippets that you might have heard in the actual episode. I had some questions for Eric, and I figured we would do an after show and I would use some of this talk that we're talking about today in that episode. So first of

3:13 all, let me ask you this. How many podcasts have covered Jacob's story. Oh man, I'm gonna get this wrong. It's a lot. It's it's over twelve, wow, and you had some some large shows. Yeah, did Voices for Justice cover Yeah? Sarah Sarah covered it about two years ago, and this is something I know. I think she started her show in regards to her sister's case, and I just kind of assumed that you had started True Consequences to cover Jacob's case, whether it was the first case or maybe you would get to it. But researching this case and listening to your podcast or I learned that you actually you wanted to do this to cover victims stories, and you really weren't sure if you were and you really didn't think you were going to cover Jacob's case in the beginning. Is that right, Yeah, that's right. I didn't want to talk about it. It's something that is extremely traumatic for me and my family. It's a situation that is the worst situation that we've ever had as a family, and so it was not something that I was excited to do. I created the show in honor of Jacob because I wanted to help people who are in the same situation as my family, and I wanted to give a voice to people who are

4:45 being ignored by the system. And I wanted to provide a platform where families could share their stories and their words without having to worry about being edited for content or having their words taken out of context. So it initially I wasn't going to do Jacob's story at all. I mostly wanted to not only help families, but also highlight a lot of the injustice that happens, especially with when it comes to child abuse cases in New Mexico, and we have a really high rate of child abuse and child death from abuse, and so it was something that more of for me. It was like a love letter to Jacob. That's really sweet. Can you tell me about your decision to cover Jacob's case. Was there something a specific event that caused you to want to cover his case? Yeah. I was talking to the mom of a murder victim. Her name was Amanda. Her teenage son and his best friend were taken out into the desert and brutally murdered. One of the kids Amanda's son, but the other kid was a target of some drug dealers and her son ended up in the car, not really on purpose, it was more of a mistaken identity thing. And so she came on the show to talk about the case talk about her fight for justice, and we were having a conversation

6:19 and I said to her something along the lines of, whatever you ignore, you allowed to continue. And if you're not willing to talk about these things, then you can't expect them to change. And I'm really good at introspection. I'm really good at, you know, thinking about what I'm saying, and I strive really hard to not be a hypocrite. So when I said that, I kind of felt like I slapped myself in the face and decided in that moment that I was gonna I was going to be true to that. I'm not just going to say something like that and not be true to it. So as soon as that interview was over, I called my mom and I asked her if she wanted to be interviewed on the podcast to talk about Jacob, because I thought it would be a good opportunity for us to one finally have a conversation about something we've never talked about, and to hopefully it would create some kind of catharsis for us to have that kind of off of our shoulders. And then the third goal was maybe it could help some other people who are maybe in a similar situation or might help somebody avoid a similar situation. So those were kinds of the things going on in my mind.

7:30 Of course I wanted justice for Jacob, but at that point I was really feeling like it wasn't possible. That was a very powerful interview that you had with your mom. I remember, you know, listening to that for the first time, and it pulled a lot of that for my episode that I'm covering Jacob's case. Now, there's a number of questions I want to get into here, but the first thing to address, I think is you chose not to use the suspect's real name, and so in my episode, I call him John. If I have to use this last name, I just used John Smith, right, and so that's how I'll refer to him in this interview. If that's okay with you, Yeah, Can you first just talk about how you came to that decision to not did you know, like right from the beginning you didn't want to use his real name, And in talking with you, I've understood that a lot more. But maybe for the audience, who for the first time is you know, hearing this story and they're like, you know, we want justice, we want this guy named. I want to I want to know who he is, you know, I want to know his face. What would you how would you respond to that? Yeah, I get it. I understand the story is going to ignite emotions in people, and you know, I get it. I'm

9:01 very emotional about the case myself. But the challenge that I'm basing in. Before I even aired my interview with my mom, my mom and I had decided not to name him because we didn't really feel like we wanted him to get any kind of recognition for anything. That was initially why we didn't name him in our in our conversation, but I was also talking to my friend Edna, who is a former prosecutor for the state of New Mexico, and trying to understand the case through her eyes, through a prosecutor's eyes, and trying to understand why prosecutors were so hesitant to do anything about this case.

9:43 And one of the things she asked me right away was are you going to name him in this podcast? And I said, I don't think so. My mom and I don't want to, and she said, I don't think you should because in New Mexico, there is a constitutional guarantee to a speedy trial for any defendant who goes through the justice system, and it's been argued in the past that the trial could start in the public, so defense attorneys could argue that he would not be able to receive a fair trial or a speedy trial because of the way that he is presented in the public. And so rather than take the risk of any chance of prosecution, my mom and I decided that it was best to not name him at all. That makes sense, and it also tell me if I'm getting this right, But at least when I was thinking about this, it seems like you guys have a limited amount of power in this relationship. You know, you've been trying to get this guy prosecuted for decades now and it hasn't happened, and he hasn't reached out to you, as far as I know, he hasn't. You know, he hasn't posed a threat. But there's always that thought in the back of your mind, your mom's mind, And so maybe this is also

11:15 a little bit of a card in your back pocket that if shit hits the fan, you have this power where you haven't named him, but you know it's there, and maybe that's in his mind Is that something that you've thought about. It's like you're reading my mind. Yeah, exactly, That's always in the back of my mind. Right If the Attorney General comes back and says we're not doing anything, well, then maybe it's time to sue him in you know, civil court for a wrongful death. I don't know, but that would change the game, and that would change the conversation, and I wouldn't necessarily be worried about naming him. And so far, I think part of it too, Like you said, there was an element of safety in that. I think almost like I'm daring him to show his hand, right, and he hasn't, So he's obviously I know that he's aware of what's going on. I know that he's aware of the push that I'm doing to get justice for Jacob so and I know through his family. Can you tell me about John's relationship with your mom, which is something I didn't know you were telling me where we were chatting, that she actually knew him from childhood, which I thought it was just kind of like this boyfriend who she had just met. Can you give us a little bit of background on that.

12:45 Yeah, I think that there's a misconception out there in the world that abusers have to be strangers, they have to be people that you don't know well. And normally, I think the majority of abusers are people that you do know, people that you do trust, people that appear to everybody else as an upstanding member of society, people who present a persona to the public of a great guy. But behind closed doors there's something else. They become something else. And that's exactly who John was. You know, my mom described him as a chameleon. And yes, they went back all the way to childhood. So his dad was a minister in town. My mom, my grandma, my grandpa, my aunts and uncles, they all went to the church, so the kids all grew up together. His sister married my mom's brother. His aunt is my godmother. So we had known this family.

13:50 We had known him for a long time. He was also my dad's best friend and my dad was being mentored by his dad. My dad was pre or he was trying to get in there and try to become, you know, this big evangelist. And so this person was not a stranger. This person was somebody that we all knew. It was somebody my whole family knew. Did you know his father edel Yes, Yeah, what what was that relationship? Like? Had you ever seen his father be abusive to anyone? No? No, And I think that probably John was abused at some point. I believe that in my heart. I think that's why he behaves the way that he does. But I don't know that it was his father.

14:45 It could have been anybody. Now, this kind of is something that I just heard in the conversation that you had with your mom on your podcast, and it was just a brief comment, but I wanted to see if you if you had insight into it. She mentioned that she started dating John after she divorced your dad, and a little bit of that dynamic was to maybe make him jealous, maybe hopes that they would get back together. Can you speak to that at all. Yeah, I don't know that it was hopes that they would get back together. So my mom and dad, they were very young when they got married. My mom was seventeen, I think my dad was maybe twenty. And my dad had aspirations of being like a really famous televangelist. That was his goal, and so he spent a lot of time on the road and my mom was stuck with me and Jacob trying to figure out how to feed us because she couldn't work because she had a baby and a preschooler, and so, you know, there were times where we didn't have any food in our house and we didn't know where we were going to get food from. And then my mom finds out through John that my dad was having an emotional affair with another woman. I don't believe that it was a physical affair. I think that they were just spending a lot

16:15 of time together. But for my mom it was very it was a betrayal. It was a huge betrayal of her trust. You know, she's struggling to keep food on the table, struggling to keep hold of the house and take care of the kids and all this other stuff, and my dad's just out hanging out with his friends. So she laughed, and she did see John as this potential revenge against my dad. She wanted to hurt him in the way that he hurt her, and John was already grooming her for this anyway, Like he swooped in as soon as she came to down and started trying to sweep her off her feet. So it was, you know, I think that's where my mom's motivation was it was probably due to her age and her heart being broken and all the pain that she endured and stress that she had. And how old was she and how old were you at that time? So she's twenty years older than me, So I was five and she was twenty five. And then because Jacob is your full brother, so there was a time when she got back together with your dad while dating John.

17:41 No, Jacob was born before that. Oh, okay, Okay, God true, so it would have been right right at that time. Basically, Jacob was about three months old when they separated. Okay, this is another difficult topic that you just mentioned in passing on your podcast. You said that John began molesting you after Jacob's death, And I know you know, I'm not going to ask you any specific topics on that unless you wanted to go into it, but I just wanted to confirm had you ever seen John sexually abusing Jacob or any suspicions around that. No, I don't remember him doing anything like that to anybody. The only time I knew about it was when he started doing it to me, But he'd never abused anybody else in front of me. In these questions too. I've got another couple here that are difficult, and they might seem maybe confrontational, but they're not meant to be that way, and I would just want to explain that this whole podcast, I've definitely taken your point of view and to present your story, and in every case I've covered up to this point, I've also tried to maintain an amount of neutrality, and so I've kind of forced myself to see the

19:18 opposite side too, and to try to just take that into perspective. Not to I'm probably making these questions sound worse than they are, but they're not really. And like I said before, if there's anything you don't want to answer, you're totally open to. Had you ever seen John firsthand physically abused Jacob? No, did John ever tell you directly to tell people that you were physically abusing Jacob? Not directly, but he did when he was telling my grandmother and other people at certain times when he was telling them about me being jealous of Jacob and her writing Jacob. There's one time I remember him getting in front of me and like squeezing my arms and saying, don't lie, don't lie. You know what happens to people who lie. So that's pretty much. I mean, we could take that, take it for whatever it is. I guess, yeah, yeah, I mean I think we all know what he was implying there. Okay, And then this is these are difficult questions too, and this is kind of what I was asking when we were talking on the phone. Mer Linda is your grandmother on your mom's side, So she's Brenda's mother yea. In this statements on Sue to Waltz police report, she mentions that she had seen you. You know, she basically has a paragraph there which unfortunately we don't have any any direct transcript,

20:52 we don't have an audio recording, and so it's just, yeah, it's secondhand and for me because it's sued to Waltz a description of a conversation with her. But she said that Eric had been extremely jealous of Jacob ever since Jacob was born. Now, I know you said you were very excited to have a brother before he was born, and I knew you were only six, so it's very normal to have jealous emotions. But do you remember him being born in like some of that excitement dissipating or how would you describe it.

21:33 I think that as he got older and I started to notice that people were definitely more interested in him. You know, I'm going from an only child to a second child. Was I think probably challenging for me and my limited emotional capacity at the time. I don't remember being jealous of Jacob to the point that I wanted to hurt him. I remember being jealous of his name. I remember thinking that he had a prettier name than I did. And it's possible, you know, that I was that jealous of him. It's possible that I did pinch him or hit him. I don't recall doing that. I was very small, but it's possible. I mean, kids do get jealous of other kids. Yeah, definitely, that's one. That's the other thing I was going to say. She said that when Eric would walk past the baby, he would hit or kick him. It's what Merlinda said. And that's hard to that's hard to really interpret as far as I have a hard time believing that she meant that literally every time you would walk past him, right, And so do you think that that's I mean, you don't remember every time. I mean, it's like you might have been jealous, you might have pinched him or something like that. I mean, I'm sure there were times where I hit him or you know, pinched him or something. There were times where he pulled my hair, you know.

23:04 So I don't know. I mean, I don't remember having this kind of like jealous rage that seems to be like the theme of what people are saying here or what my grandmother's saying. But maybe maybe I did. I don't know. In the two events that were kind of cited, as you know, the ones that come up in the medical reports are this incident where John and this is what I found out A belief from you was that, or it might have been in the report that John had left you to babysit Jacob at six years old. And then I guess he came back and claims that you took him out of the crib and dropped him. Yeah, that's a strange one. I don't remember that happening. But I find it really hard to believe that any responsible parent would leave a six year old in charge of a six month old baby. Like, I don't see that as something normal.

24:11 It's from the objectively abusive. Yeah, definitely negligent, definitely negligent. Yeah, so I don't recall that happening. According to his story, I was alone with Jacob and Jacob was crying and I picked him up out of the crib and he fell and that's how he fractured his skull and had fluid building up on his brain. So, yeah, did he ever? Did he or even your mom ever explained why if they had suspicions that you were doing this, why they would have left you alone with Well that's the thing, right, Well, my mom wouldn't left me alone. My mom was at work, so it would have just been him. And so that's that's the question. If you're so concerned about me hurting Jacob, then why would you leave me alone with Jacob? And that's not even the worst Why would you leave me alone? Like I'm six years old? Why would you leave me alone with Jacob? Yeah, that's the worst one, But the secondary one is definitely that. The thing that's important to understand is that crib was very tall. I mean it must have been. The rails must have been up to like five foot tall. So in order for me to get Jacob out of there, I would have had to have moved a chair I suspect up against the crib and then tried to pick him up. He was a big baby. He weighed ten pounds when he was born. By that point

25:45 he was probably twenty pounds. I would have been lucky if I was forty. So, yeah, you know, physics alone, Let's say I do manage to get him out of there. Okay, maybe I could have dropped him off the chair. I don't know. I don't recall that happening. I feel like I would have, right, And then there was one other incident, and this is the last thing in regards to this, but Jacob in the medical report had a bruised rib. Yeah. I don't know if it was fully broken. I think it's a broken heeled, broken heeled, right. Yeah, And you had one memory of kicking or correct me if I'm wrong, but I think you said you had a memory of kicking Jacob one time. Yeah, you do. You can you tell us what you remember from that. We were laying on the floor and he was kind of clawing on my leg, and so I kicked, and like it wasn't very hard. I don't think I would have had strength to fracture his skull, but I do remember my leg kicked out and it did it, did him, you know, on the top of his not the top of his head, but like his forehead. And this was a separate time and the crib incident or this alleged crib alleged right right, yeah, yeah, okay, so this was not anything to do with a rib a rib though, No, oh no. And from that rib do we have any was there any ever, ever, any um hypothetical situation put forth like the crib or the

27:23 kicking that anybody to explain the rib? M No, none of them. Nobody really knows when that happened or or how long it had been. He had been fussy a lot, and it makes sense now knowing how much paint he was in. He was pretty fussy after shortly after he started we started living with John. And another thing that Merlinda said, this is not about the abuse, but she said John doesn't take care of Jacob very often. Is that true because it seemed like he was actually taking care of Jacob quite so. Yeah, So what she's talking about is after I was sent to California to be with my dad, my mom really stopped allowing Jacob to be alone with John for extended periods of time. And so that one night when there was no other person laughed, she had to leave him with him for an hour. That's when he died. That's but it had been weeks.

28:30 It had been like maybe nine or ten weeks where he hadn't been alone with Jacob. And did you I mean you were in another city and you were only six, So maybe in retrospect, did you ever hear from your mom was he upset that it seemed like he wasn't being trusted with Jacob anymore. I don't know that he was upset. I would have to ask my mom that. That's not a question I've ever asked her, because I could see his personality from what I've gleaned from reading the reports and talking to you, that perhaps that made him mad and maybe he had some resentment towards Jacob for that. He definitely resented Jacob. I mean, there were times where he screamed at my mom for turning down the radio because Jacob was sleeping. You know. There were just several incidents where he kind of burst out and broke through his facade and yelled and got kind of scary. But I think those were the only times that he gave any indication that he had some like anger or rage issues. And there was an incident too that I'm going to talk I talked about in the episode where it seemed like he went to hold Jacob.

29:49 Jacob had a very negative reaction and started crying. Yeah. So one of the things about Jacob is we'll be right back after a brief commercial break. One ad free episodes are available at patreon dot com slash tapes from the Dark Side He went to hold Jacob, Jacob had a very negative reaction and starts crying. Yeah. So, one of the things about Jacob is he was adventurous. He was a daredevil. He liked crazy things. He liked to play Superman, you know. He liked when people put him over their heads and pretended like he was flying, And he liked to grab the front legs of the baby swing so that the whole thing would fall backwards. He was a crazy kid. And then his personality changed. He stopped liking people putting him over their heads. My grandmother pointed out to my mom and said, look, he's acting really weird. Normally he likes me to do this, Now he doesn't, And so she shows my mom and he's trying to jump out of her arms to go into my mom's arms, and he's crying and screaming and clawing at my grandma's hair, and so my mom goes to John and says, you know, are you hurting Jacob? Like what's going on? He's acting really weird. He's afraid of things that he's never been

31:22 afraid of before. And John picks him up and says, no, all I do is this and starts to put him over his head, and Jacob again is freaking out, trying to jump out of his arms into my mom's arms, and my mom tells him, like, don't ever do that again. He doesn't like it, stop doing that to him. I was also going to share story with you when I was about two years old, and I'm not sure if this is going to be in the episode. It might be I. Oh, well, I don't have memory this, but I was told I was on the beach with my sister, a younger sister who's about a year and a half younger, and so she was under a year old. I was about to and I took a big handful of sand and went over to her little crib and just threw it directly into her eyes.

32:15 And you know, I've I've also slammed her finger in the door when we were growing up and she had to have stitches, and threw a pencil at her and almost hit her in the eyeball, and you know, she was bleeding on her face. And of course I got in trouble for all these things. But if you took every incident where you know, I had hurt my sister, you could easily build a case where I was a you know, and I remember you talking about this with the lawyer, how it's very normal for there to be some level of not physical abuse, but physical interaction between kids and people get hurt, you know, yeah, you know, not to the point of death. But yeah, reading reading this and just my perspective, I read it the first time, I couldn't believe how obviously guilty it's pure. John was. And then when you told me, well, you know I did Jacob one time, and you know I was jealous of him, I started thinking, well, wait a second, I got to investigate this side of it and try to remain neutral. And then I come back to it and I'm like, yeah, there's really there's really nothing here, I mean, nothing that could say you were responsible for this in any in my mind, in any sense of that. Yeah, I'm sure that a defense team could find experts who would disagree with you though, right

33:50 right, I mean, you know, everybody deserves their day in court, even if they are even if they are potentially Yeah, can you update us, even if it's in a vague way, the legal case against him. I know you said in your interview with your legal friends that it seemed like prosecution or getting this to court is seeming less likely. But you did say the case is technically reopened or or I don't know if we can say that. Ye, take that, we can talk about that, yeah, okay, yeah, or whatever you want to speak to that. And it's interesting because tomorrow is thirty six years since Jacob died April tenth, April tenth, so he would have been thirty six, almost thirty seven years old. It makes me think about what his life might be like had he lived, you know whatever, be an uncle. Um, that wasn't the question you asked, No, no, But that's that's I did to you post that on social media. And it's hard, you know, it is. It's tragic every time you think about it. Yeah, I think that's the part that hurts. The most, you know, is thinking about what could have been

35:22 and what my family's life could have been like. But as far as the case goes, a couple of years ago, we did a campaign for the Ten Days of Jacob. We started April first, and we went into April tenth, and we asked anybody who cared about Jacob's case, who cared about justice, to email the DA, to call the DA, and to write the DA in Socorro County. And I think it was two days two days later, the DA called or emailed me and said, please make this stop. We're running on unlimited staff because of the pandemic. We can't handle all these calls and emails. So he only made it to two days at Jacob before he asked us to stop, which felt pretty good actually. And the other thing he did was he copied the Attorney General at the time, Hector bald at Us in the email and said, I'm turning the case over to the Attorney General's office. And so we immediately stopped all that activity and allowed the Attorney General some time to review the case. I sent everything that I have to them. And it's been a couple of years. We have a new Attorney General now, but Hector bald at Us did reopen the case.

36:49 I don't really know what's happening right now with it because I've been waiting for the new administration to get settled. So it's probably about time for another call with them. But continuing to push on other shows because this Attorney General is the type of person who cares about electability and re electability, and so in order for this case to become a priority in that office, it needs to have more people listening to it and hearing it and learning about it and talking about it. And the more that happens, the less likely he is to ignore us. Our last conversation with the Attorney General's office and the advocate, we were asked to go and find evidence for them, which you know, I mean, I'm willing to help my brother's case, But like, the reason we're here is because of the state. So like we shouldn't have been here thirty six years later. This should not have happened. I shouldn't have had to endure sexual abuse. My mom shouldn't have had to endure all of the you know, violence that she had to endure after Jacob died. None of that was necessary. If they would have just tried a little bit.

38:15 I mean, how is it? And I'm just going off on a rant and I'm sorry, but I think it's just the anniversary. It's got me riled up, but it actually is going to lead into a good question. But keep going finished. I want you to keep ranting. I might steal your thunder here a little bit, because how is it that this person confessed? And how is there no recording? How is there no transcript? How is there no summary of that confession? That's absurd to me. That's exactly what I wanted to ask you about, which is on a twentieth, nineteen eighty seven, we had the first confession where a polygraph examination was scheduled and they called it off. We're actually sorry. April fourteenth, nineteen eighty seven.

39:15 And then on April twentieth, Sue de Walt talked with assistant chief Johnny Trujillo, who said that he obtained a full confession and do you have any have you received any explanation, because as per what you just said and what's in the episode, that confession summary, audio transcript, everything is missing. Do you have they given you any explanation of what happened. It's a really old case and things go missing all the time, because that's kind of in my mind. That's I mean, we do have the polygraph and we have the admission afterwards, but that's that's huge evidence. I did read in so in nineteen ninety two in the Affidavid for a Rest, we have an explanation of what happened in that confession, but that was, you know, five years later, going off of the memory. And also, I don't know that I believe him. Who is that Johnny True? Yeah? No?

40:37 John? Oh right, right, because the story has changed so many times. Right. Have you ever talked to John assistant chief Johnny Trujillo. Do you know if he still works for socorro skorro Skora. Oh? Thank you, Yeah, you're welcome. I don't know that he still works for them. I this can't go on the record, but I'm hm, so stay tuned for that. Wow, that would be well, I'll have it cute up to listen to it. Yeah. Man, there's there's so much stuff in here, but you've addressed so much of it in your first interview with your mom that I'm gonna be using so much of that. Okay, um, trying to just review this. Those are my major questions. Did you have anything you wanted to add to this? Can I talk to your listeners for a second, please? Please? All right? So I just want to say, um, thank you so much for listening to Jacob's story.

41:54 It means the world that you care enough to listen. And I hope that you can just take one small action for me today if you can just share Jacob's story, whether it's on Tz's podcast tapes from the Dark Side, or any other episode of Jacob's that has been produced out there. The more we can get this out, the more likely we are to get our day in court. And Jacob deserves that, my mom deserves that. We've been waiting for thirty six years. It's time. It's time. So if you could help with that, it would mean the world to me. I know it seems like a little thing, but it is so much bigger than you can imagine. It really helps and I appreciate it. And you deserve that too, man. I know you said Jacob and your mom, but you deserve that. Thank you. Love you, dude, love you too. Thanks man. I think yeah, that's powerful. Good stuff. Man. Every year I think it's not gonna get to me, but it does. It's getting to me, and I've you know, I'm so far removed from it, so it's I can only imagine, man, It's it's just awful.

43:15 Thank you for thank you for doing this. Man, it means a lot. I'm sorry I didn't do it sooner. I just get caught up in my own world and no worries. Yea. Honestly, I feel very honored to be able to cover it and to be able to talk to you man. And yeah, it's gonna be a great episode. I can't wait to hear it.