S11, Chapter 6: Dead on the First of July

0:00 It's July one, twenty twenty one, at two ten pm. This is an instant message from Bart Helderson to Chandler Helderson and what does it read? Bart wrote to Chandler, I'm ready whenever you are. Tapes from the Dark Side contains descriptions of violence and sexuality. Listener discretion is advised. On July eighth, twenty twenty one, six days after his parents had been missing, Chandler and his girlfriend Kat were driven to the Dane County Police Department in separate squad cars and interviewed in separate rooms. We've already reviewed much of Kat's interview, but we've not yet heard from Chandler. Let's now step inside the interrogation room and listen to his version of events. This sound's a little bit more comfortable, and the lighting might be a little bit better, So if you just want to have a seat there, perfect, Thank you so much.

1:19 Sure, that's fine, I'm sure to figure out what's up. No, you're fine. We'll be raising with him. The officer leaves Chandler alone in the room by himself, with only his thoughts to keep him company. It's immediately clear from body language alone that Chandler is out of his element. He sits in a chair in the corner, hunched over, staring at the ground. He keeps that position for the next two solid minutes. Eventually he does lean back in his chair and stretch out his legs, but this does little to ease the internal tension. He's continuously shifting back and forth and fidgeting with his hands. The fact that we have this footage of Chandler in the room by himself is not a coincidence. It's the result of careful planning on the part of the investigators. Although I can't prove it, there's little doubt in my mind that Dane County investigators had one priority that day, and that was interviewing Chandler. And if they wanted an investigator inside the room with him at that exact moment, you can bet there wouldn't be any waiting. Five minutes into the video, Chandler stands up. He approaches the wall nearest to him, and he gently presses his ear up against it. Apparently he couldn't hear much as it keeps the pose for only a few seconds. He again takes

2:52 his seat, hunched over, and waits. Eight minutes into the video, officers finally enter the room. There's a miscommunicator right from the start, and although it has no consequence on the interrogation that is to come, it's a comical moment. I'll see if you can catch it by Chandler, how are you going? Not good? Good, dude, But you guys are spots richer. The volume during that little exchange was low, so I'll go ahead and repeat it. The officer says, hey, Chandler, how you doing. Chandler says not good, to which the officer replies, good, good, obviously mishearing him. The irony in this exchange is it'll turn out to be one of the only moments in this interview Chandler actually tells the truth.

3:43 What's going on? All right, So we're just gonna talk to you a little bit more, Okay, all right, just say it all. I'm gonna record stuff. Okay. Just helps and remember everything and picks up everything that we talk about. So Brian Schunk detective Day kind of shriffs. Obviously we spoke yesterday, and yep, I was from Midted the initial Jen Amazon, Michael Michael and then your birthday three fifteen, nineteen ninety eight, got it, So obviously we're we're here. We want to talk a little bit about your parents. Want misson, right, Krista and Bart? One thing I have to do as a podcaster, as someone who listens and watches these interviews over and over and over again while I'm editing and writing, is am I reading too much into something? And I've asked myself this question a number of times throughout this case, specifically about the next moment that occurs in the exchange. Right after Detective Brian Schunk mentions Chandler's parents' names for the first time, Bart and Christa, Chandler's eyes open about twice their normal size. It looks like he's seen a coast, and then his right hand jerks, almost involuntarily, making emotion, as if he's about to take a piece of paper from the detective, but nothing's being offered to him. He draws his hand back in towards his body and recomposes himself before we get started, just because

5:18 you're up here, okay, so I'm just going to read you your constitutional rights. Okay. So it's a Dane County issued card that they give us, so I'll just read them to you right off the card. Okay, I haven't mentioned it on this podcast before, and I think it goes without saying, especially for anyone somewhat familiar with the law, at least in the United States, if you're being read your Miranda rights, you stand only to make your situation worse by not asking for a lawyer to be present during questioning. There's really only one word that you need to know after being read your Miranda rights, and that's lawyer or if you're feeling generous, two words lawyer please. Now, in Chandler's case, it really wouldn't have made much of a difference, but he chooses to talk to the police without a lawyer.

6:08 So I guess if you want to start with, let's just go back to to last Wednesday. Wednesday, I was with my dad. We what time Wednesday? I remember it was kind of a bad day. Okay, why was it a bad day? Well, my had work, so she was gone. My dad and I were watching something over lunch. It was the Wheel of Fortune, and we have we normally have the couch like with our back facing, or at the table. We said it at the end of you coming downstairs in that bedroom with the TV. I tossed the ball and I smashed the glass, okay with the dog. The dog's help. That yeah, set my dad off. We tried to clean it up. I don't know about him, but I got injured, but he was mad.

7:18 He didn't really talk to me too much that day before Chandler is barely into his version of events. We already have a discrepancy. Remember Christa's co worker who drove by on Friday when she hadn't shown up to work. It's been a while since we've heard that clip, so I'll go ahead and play a portion of it for you now. When we arrived at a peerod, he had just gotten out of the shower. I confirmed with him that his parents were not there, and then he had given us a story about how they had gone up north in an emergency to the cabin and went with a couple that he was not sure who they were. Just know that they're picked up early that day and would be gone for a couple of days. Is there anything else unusual about his appearance? He had a bandage on his large toe.

8:09 I'm not sure which side it was, but he had a bandage on one of his toes. Did he say anything about his foot? He said that he had broken the glass around the fireplace while playing with the dogs. Okay, did he describe his injury at all? I just said there was blood everywhere. So Chandler says that he cut his foot on Wednesday. Dan said that when he was there Friday to check on Christa, Chandler had a bandage on his foot and he'd just gotten out of the shower. Now, if we're getting technical, this cut could have happened on Wednesday, and Chandler could have simply been bandaging a two day old cut on Friday morning. But as we'll later find out, that cut happened on the early morning hours of Friday, July. Second. You see, Chandler had been a busy little bee on Thursday, and he had been up all night Thursday night burning a fire the fireplace in his house. In the beginning of July the summer Wisconsin.

9:15 The low in Madison, Wisconsin that very night was fifty four degrees fahrenheit. Perhaps sweatshirt weather, but certainly not fireplace weather. We'll get into exactly how the fireplace glass pane shattered and how Chandler cut his foot, but for now, let's return to the interview. All right, So, if you were tossing a ball. What type of ball was it? This gross, hairy tennis ball rizzoloves just like a green tennis ball, like the normal Yeah, with a squeaker, not like a tennis racketball. But they don't show my dog choose those out of any tennis ball. They just chew the squeakers out and then they don't play with them anymore. All right, So he was tossing their own broke the fireplace glass. You said you were injured.

10:03 What type of injury? I got a pretty deep hole in my foot last night. Mary looked at it and she said, the reason it keeps bleeding is because there's glass in it. All that shows I showed the active leaf. Yeah, okay, so a glass dog. That was roughly around two, and then the rest. He didn't really talk to me. I went back to doing like a job search, kind of just shooting my day away, just okaying games YouTube. Maybe that's when I came across one of the jobs I liked. Then five o'clock rolled oop by and we mom came home dinner. Would you guys have one's donn? I couldn't tell you, Okay, who made it? I think it was probably just stuff from the fridge.

11:07 I don't. I think we all did our own thing again. Sure. By the way, a detective at my house said something's happened, And while we were leaving, people were going inside. Is there a warrant for my house? Should there be? No? I'm just wondering if can they go? As far as I know, they were at your house and they were going to be there talking to you to ask if you would come up here and talk. Yeah, so Officer Hayley just like walked pretty much into the gate, you know, the gate on the outside. She just kind of walked in. As I was wondering, was that when you were getting your wallet? Uh? No, we were, we were. I was in the car waiting to leave. I was just wondering if everything's okay, because she said something's happened and we need to go down. If I know what that's about? Oh, has anything bad happened? I'm sure it's not necessarily wrong to ask for a warrant when the police are searching your property.

12:15 But I believe the reason that the investigator is so dismissive towards Chandler's questions, aside from the obvious reason that it's distracting from his line of questioning is that the address that the police were searching was not Chandler's legal property in the first place. In addition, I'm sure that the police at that point had a warrant to search the house, and that's because they had found something out on the farm where Kat's mother and her fiance lived. I'll tell you all about that later, but for now, let's again return to June thirtieth, Wednesday, one day before the murder of Bart and Krista Halderson. In addition to his blatant lies about the broken fireplace glass, Chandler conveniently leaves out a couple of key facts. He leaves out the fact that the day before his father confronted him about the phone call he had with Madison Area Technical College. Remember that Bart texted Chaz at three twenty seven on that day quote I spoke to Omar job and at five thirty nine pm that night, Bart googled Madison Area Technical College and on that website he clicked on the contact information and the employee directory. This was to confirm the fact that Chandler had been lying to him about the various fictional advisors he had made up that he was supposedly talking to

13:45 to try to request his transcripts and on June thirtieth, Wednesday, Chandler also leaves out a text that he received from his mother, Christa at five nineteen pm. She said, come see us when you're on it. At six seventeen pm, Chaz replied, Okay, this is the day before the murders and the day before Bart and Chandler we're going to drive to Madison Area Technical College together for a meeting. So so Wednesday night, mom comes home. Dad was angry? Was he yelling or what was? How would you just grab dadly angry? It was if you you would yell, if you said something to him. I guess if you talked to him, if you give him this space, he'll be okay. So Wednesday night, Wednesday, if you just give the space, that's all we did. Just give him this space. He won't yell or do anything. Okay, That's all we had to do. Were just and I went to Clayton, do some laundry, make our beds, mhm, stuff like that. Who's we my night moment?

15:05 Okay? Yeah, we had an early night with no TV that night. Gotcha? What time did your parents go to bedlins in it. You think I was in bed at eight? You wouldn't. Yeah, okay, and you were down stairs. That's where you've been sleeping. You told me last night. I was in my room Wednesday upstairs. Okay, why have you been sleeping downstairs again? You told me last bathroom? The bathrooms are ready to be close because stairs I can't see too well in the dark town. So gotcha. And just like last night, I'm drotting some nose. But you know, it doesn't mean one thing is more important than other.

15:45 It just means that I need to remember stuff and I understand that. Gotcha? All right? So did you sleep in their door closed that night? Or okayh yeah, I always have a closed closed door. Yeah, that makes sense. I feel like they argued a little bit. Parents said, what we're arguing about probably what's set my dad off that day? To the glass, us not having food already and stuff like that. I mean, we just like with whatever is in the fridge. I suppose. Yeah, who was upset about that? Dad? He usually doesn't like that. He likes when we cook a night. Okay, does he ever cook? I haven't seen him cook? Oh, he grills. He likes to grill.

16:36 He grilled on Thursday. Nice. There's one last text exchange from Wednesday, June thirtieth that I want to tell you about because I think it gives us an insight into Chaz's relationship with his mother, Christa. Seven three am from Christa to Chazz, thank you for waving. You made my day. Smiley face, five exclamation points. Chazz to Krista, No problem. Krista to Chazz, love you, lots for exclamation points. No response from Jazz. End of text exchange. Next we'll hear about July first, twenty twenty one, the day of the murders. Right after a quick break, don't go anywhere Thursday morning, I'll wake go what time you then? Six? Okay?

17:47 Dogs, we talked about that yesterday. Six am is kind of your deal, right six am the internal o'clock. Now, yeah, used thank you a while. Six uh. I throw't off any breakfast, so I kind of just stay in my room on my phone. Helped my mom out getting ready in the morning. She she left her work at seven thirty. I got her whatever she had to do, h what was it? It was meaningless tasks like just daily like pillowcase changes and she changes stuff like that, you know, in the morning before work. Yeah, that's what we always do. Then she's gone. Uh my dad starts to grill around eight thirty nine in the morning. Uh, yeah, to get the temperature right.

19:02 Was he working from home that day or yes, okay, we we ate the grill. Nothing really happened between that. We kind of either were outside with the dogs from the lighting of the grill, him going and taking a couple of calls, and then we had we ate noon noon thirty or twelve thirty. Sorry. Sure. Then we went inside and had our TV show again, Wheel of Fortune. It's always on round our time for lunch or was it family Feud? The family feu feud? This Thursday family Feud?

19:48 Where'd you guys watch that? I found the same? Okay, did you guys have a TV upstairs? I don't remember. No, No, okay a lot. Sorry, I'm really trying to make the memory. Then yeah, we went to go do our own things. I went back to a little bit more job searching. This time I branched into DeForest instead of just windsor looking. He went back to work. We planned on I don't know. Something went well for him, So that's all. Then we were hanging out again. My mom texts I I I believe I text her everything's going well. Uh, his phone died. My dad he he didn't fleep, he just kind of like charged it, put on the dock. I left it. Then we just kind of hung out and my mom gets home and I start the I start shrimp scampy for my dad because that's what he wanted, but we didn't have shrimp, so I made shrimp less scampy.

21:11 That's that's where they told me while we were eating it, they were gonna go with their friends, and I was like, oh cool, I said they were going cabin. Yeah, well we were going up north. That's referred to it. Who said that my dad doesn't talk while he eats. So there we are at Thursday dinner up north. Through the cabin. My dad says, I'll need a set for pipe repair and gas. So I'm like, all right. I grabbed the pipe prepare stuff from his plumbing chest.

21:55 They're plumbing plumbing box. It's like a toad of what you'd need for type repair and two whatever Jerry kints at. I can't remember the amount, but they're red with the safety nozzles. Got those squared away. They had most of their duffels already hacked at that point, and we all just started bringing him down to the mudroom with the shoes by the garage. After that, we watched is a Netflix original, you know seven Underground? Who was watching that? The three of us, all three, all three, and that put it at nine. They had their drinks, went to my computer.

22:52 My computer was at that that black table. We said it, sure, we saw that stuff. Played, played a video game called Tarkov until midnight, well after midnight maybe even, and lose track of time. And my parents by then we're asleep. You got a keeth brush and everything. And that's when I crawled into bed from the black table. So after a movie, we set up my couch bed and the pillows for the girls who helped us set the bed up. My dad, Yes, he's leaving and I would need that. I don't know if Judge Judy is the one who coined this phrase or joke, but as a faithful Judge Trudy fan, I've heard her say it a number of times. How do you know when a teenager is lying? Well, you know, because their mouth is moving.

23:56 A similar sentiment could be so when it comes to Chandler, and as with most of his stories, this one about July first, is interspersed with facts and half truths. Christa did send a text to Chaz in the afternoon. Bart's phone did die, or at least was manually turned off. But what I want to do is take you through that day, moment by moment, through everything that happened exactly as we know it. Around six am, Chandler wakes up, takes the two family dogs outside to urinate, His mother leaves for work that morning, and then Chandler and his father, Bart begin their separate routines. At this point, it's unclear how much Chandler was still committed to his charade. We don't know how much Bart had told his son that he knew, and we don't entirely know how much Bart knew. Bart was likely clued into the fact that his son had never graduated college, But did he also know that his internship was a lie, that his SpaceX job was a lie, that his role as a volunteer diver for the police department was a lie, and that his injury from his fall was a lie. What we do know is that Bart and Chandler had plans to visit MTC together that day at three pm, so to some extent, Chandler was still pretending.

25:26 Beginning at seven twenty am, a text exchange between Chandler and Cats initiated, or, to be specific, a snapchat exchange. But it's kind of the same thing. We've already covered part of this exchange in a previous episode, but I think it takes on a whole new meaning when we know that this happened just hours before Chandler took the lives of both of his parents From Kat, how did you sleep, Chandler, I hardly slept. Chandler then sends the emoticon of the colon and the backslash punctuation marks usually indicates indecision or exasperation.

26:07 Kat says, I'm sorry, B why. Chandeler replies, IDK. Stuff hasn't really been going well for me lately, so I'm trying to plan for the next thing to fuck me over. Cat responds, B, It's gonna be okay. Chess says yeah, I just had a great future planned and it's all falling apart. Kat says, no, it's not, B, You're going to be okay. That exchange ended at seven fifty four am. At one thirty eight pm, Christa text Chas hope things are going well, thinking of you, smiley face. At two pm, the health app on parts Apple iPhone recorded its data for the last hour, which he had set up to occur every hour on the hour. At two o seven pm, Bart's last email was sent to con tents were seemingly unrelated to this case.

27:03 Three minutes later, at two ten pm, Bart texted Chandler, I'm ready whenever you are. It's July first, twenty twenty one at two ten pm. This is an instant message from Bart Helderson to Chandler Helderson and what does it read? Bart wrote to Chandler, I'm ready whenever you are. This is the last recorded text from Bart Holderson's phone at two thirty four pm, almost an hour after his mother had first texted him. Chaz responded and said going well. Thanks. Christer responded right away with a smiley face. Three pm was the last time Bart's health app recorded data. After Bart Holderson's phone updated the health app at three o'clock on July first, twenty twenty one, was there ever any activity on that phone? Again? There was not.

27:56 At three nineteen pm, Chazz text Christa, Dad's phone died. Text or call me and get soda on your way home. I have an extra hour of work. Three minutes later, Christa responded, Okay, I can smiley face. There's something so crushingly sad about all the smiley faces that Christa sends to her son Chandler. And it's not just the emojis. It's the care, the love, the tenderness exuding from her messages, and just as tragic, Chandler's coldness, his lack of empathy to play devil's advocate for a moment. Chandler, at this point in his life, was twenty three years old. It's the age when you are just exiting your childhood, your teenage years, and you're truly becoming an adult, or at least you're supposed to be. I can understand some level of rebellion against the life that your parents show you at that age, At least I know that I went through that for a bit. But even I said I love you packed at my mom, which is something we never see Chandler do in any of his texts.

29:14 In my mind, this seems to suggest a certain level of psychopathy. Now, I wouldn't say that in every case. Certainly there are abusive parents out there, but there is no evidence to support the idea that Christa or Bart ever abused Chandler or even came close. There's another moment from weeks ago that I didn't mention, but I think I want to tell you about it now. It's nothing that monumental, just another example of the care that Christa and Bart showed towards their sun. On June twenty third, Christa text Chandler, good night, Chandler, love you. Chandler responds good night. The next day, Chandler texts Christa, I'm going to read it. Let me know if this is correct. Hr Rep and me are having to attend a board meeting online this afternoon. Our meeting will be online around lunch. I do not have to leave since on June twenty fourth, twenty twenty one. That's correct, and Krista responds, have Dad coach you and have in the wings to help you. Please let him support you, or I will come home so I can. Mister Halderson responds, sounds good here saving Christa's phone as Chaz, that's correct, and then the same day later at ten pm, I'm waiting in the room for him. Now at one ten, what do we see from Krista to Chandler? Would you like me to come home?

30:45 How does Chandler respond that day at one fifteen, I'm all set, and slightly after that I got a list of things from Dad and a bunch of tips. In researching this case and reading about this case, I've come across every opinion that you can have, and I think the one that frustrates me the most is that Bart and Christa should have seen this coming. And I reject that sentiment with the whole of my being. Bart and Christa did absolutely nothing wrong. In fact, they sounded like two of the best parents you could ask for, trusting, loving, always willing to see the best in their son, and Chandler Holderson betrayed that trust in an act of absolute selfish depravity. We don't know when, but at some time between two ten PM and before his mother arrived home, Chandler Holderson murdered his father with an SKS semi automatic rifle. We don't know exactly how it happened, but we do know one of the thirty nine millimeters bullets that was fired entered Bart's body from the back and hit a spine. Investigators later found traces of blood in the Holderson family basement, where they also found a spent ammunition cartridge. Shell bullet fragments were found on the basement floor. During later searches of the basement,

32:19 investigators pulled off pieces of insulation from the side of the walls and what they found. There were three ammunition magazines which held twenty rounds of ammunition for an SKS rifle. The third magazine only had fifteen rounds in it. Five rounds were missing. It's likely that Chandler Holderson murdered his father with at least one to two of those rounds, and the remaining rounds use on his mother, just like with Bart. We don't know how exactly Chandler killed Christa, but we know he asked her to buy soda. We know they kept soda in the basement, and we know that all the blood evidence and the bullet fragments were found in the basement. We also know that Chandler shot his father in the back. From this, we can reasonably deduce that Chandler hid somewhere in the basement and ambushed his mother. We don't know if Bart or Christa were alive long enough to know what was happening to them, to know that they were murdered by their son. We can only hope that they didn't. One of the only moments of grace and the story is that we have enough evidence to reasonably deduce that Bart and Christa were not alive for what was about to happen to their bodies. Coming up on the next episode of Tapes from the

33:52 Dark Side, people in neighborhood thought it was a little bit weird that so much fireplace was going on. They smelled stuff. One person this neighborhood's full of retired cops. When one retired cop said, I smelled like a barbecue, like a smell like a pig roast, And he said that just not knowing what it was at the time talking to the police. I'm your host t Z Borden. I want to thank you for listening today. There are three things you can do to help the show. The first one is tell a friend or two. Do you know anyone who's interested in true crime.

34:52 Maybe you're part of a Facebook group, whatever the case may be, try to tell a friend this week about Tapes from the Dark Side. The second thing you can do is leave us a review, go to Tapes from the Darkside dot com forward slash rate. You can leave us a review on Apple, Spotify or Podchaser, and the third thing you can do is donate to the show Patreon dot com slash Tapes from the Darkside. We also have bonus material. If you're an Apple subscriber, you can subscribe to our premium feed there, which is basically all the stuff you get on Patreon, and you can also leave us a donation on PayPal if you'd like. That's Tapes from the Darkside dot com slash PayPal. I usually make a point to read out all of our new Patreon subscribers, but I was brainstorming ways to get episodes to you faster and one thing that definitely slows me down at the end of an episode is reading out all the names, and so I've made an executive decision to save that for the end of the season, though I do still want to read out our two tier supporters, Teddy Redman, Melinda Mooha, Ramovic, Erica Scott Jason Irvin, Jessica Cooper, Fiona Gibson, Jody c Sundin, ray Ilse, Catalan, Malory Bitterman, Santana Savine, Vanessa Miller, Jonathan Cox, gino Oi Bunco, Tyler Ernster, Sherry Sly, Shelley

36:27 Jones, Alexis Kathleen, and Greg b. If you like the music in this show, then you should look up Augusta Trevor Oam. You can find all his links in our show notes, and you should also look up twenty six hundred, who's allowed us to adapt one of his songs for our main theme. Stay tuned till after the credits for a promo from our friend at foul Play. His name is Shane Waters. In this season, he's doing a deep dive into the Zodiac Killer. In my opinion, this couldn't be a more perfect case for the foul Play Crime Series podcast. Just like our show, they love to use original audio, tasteful sound effects, music, and expertly written narration to tell compelling true crime stories. There are already six episodes out on the Zodiac series. There might even be seven by the time this episode publishes, so go check it out. It's season thirty three.

37:30 That's foul Play Crime Series will play the promo right after the credits. Stick around until next time. Try to enjoy the daylight. Cute only last you so far. You live in California. You'll look around California, look around Hollywood and Beverly Hills. There are lots of cute looking girls, all pretty with pretty smiles and pretty faces that get nowhere. The ones that's smart and have pretty faces and a reasonable people and work hard and don't take advantage of other people. They got a shot, but pretty faces just don't get anyway. Oh or twenty three ninety five judgment for the plant. If that's all a dark side? Yes, God, In a world where darkness lurks around every corner, one name stands out among the rest the zodiac. So we had a devil homicide that took place last night, sixteen year old girl and a seventeen year old boy. The boy was shot right at the side of the car and the girl apparently tried to run. We have no motive at this time. His first words were, I want to report at devil murder and I also killed those kids. Last year Step into the Shadows with foul play. Crime series chilling new season follow a predator who took the lives of five known victims, claim to terrifying thirty seven across northern California in the late

39:05 nineteen sixties. The Zodiac pinned taunting, boastful letters and made disturbing phone calls. Craving attention. He unveiled haunting confessions while toying with law enforcement over their failure to catch him time with the Code complex Intricate codes accompanied some of his letters, ciphers with hidden meaning that would take decades to break. I got a very taunting, creepy feeling from the call. It felt that they were kill or killing would appear in his code. Listen to the Zodiac releasing weekly right now on foul Play crime series. Well we can both start park altogether.

40:01 Mm. Yeah, I don't even know if I'll get my laptop back ever in my life, so it's okay. I'll never remember the passwords any of my things, So yeah, I'll starting zero. You've been wanting a new laptop anyway, So what's it. You've been wanting a new laptop anyway? Oh yeah, well mine, I've been keeping it alive with super glue and whatever. M every Saturday to another boy at least twice now. So mm hmm. Hopefully you remember your iCloud password because we have a lot of photos on your phone. I didn't like the cloud. I tried to disable it as much as I could, but you have one minute remaining. Well, we have one minute, and you're a poopy butt for that because you have a lot of those on your phone. Well, hopefully we have the same ones on yours. We don't, okay, damn, Well hopefully look at that. Yeah, h I miss you, I love you. I love you too. One of the sheet is for your mom, one small picture, so can I read it? But can I read it? Or is it just from my mom? Oh? It's yeah, for both.

41:30 Here it's a picture. It's not much, so yeah, you're okay to read it if you want. Great day, I'll message you good love you, love you too. I don't know what it's going to hang up on us. Yeah, just keep talking. So thank you for using Global Telling.