Feb. 10, 2025

S11, Chapter 19: Interview with a Bunkmate

In November of 2023, I put out an open call to interview anyone who...

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Season 11S11 | The Haldersons

In November of 2023, I put out an open call to interview anyone who had any relation to the Halderson case. At first the lines were quiet. Then I made contact with a man who goes by the name "Wallace."

He claimed to have been bunkmates with Chandler back in county jail. I verified this man's identity and, surely enough, his claim checks out.

Here is our nearly two hour long conversation.

Correspondence:
https://images2.imgbox.com/8a/85/Emy6ppOU_o.jpeg
https://images2.imgbox.com/33/1b/6XLfYrxb_o.jpg
https://images2.imgbox.com/34/68/OyJ26Tr6_o.jpeg
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https://images2.imgbox.com/9b/17/m3EglFku_o.jpg

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WEBVTT

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Tapes from the Dark Side contains descriptions of violence and sexuality.

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Listener discretion is advised.

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There's a series of forums that I've been frequenting since

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the creation of the website that they're hosted on reddit

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dot com. These forums vary in everything from recipes to

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true crime cases, and of course there is an entire subreddit,

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which is what the forums are called, dedicated to our

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one and only Chandler Holderson. I noticed that there were

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a couple of people posting on that website on that

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forum claiming to be ex romantic lovers of Chandler. I

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reached out to the two or three accounts and offered

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the chance to do an interview with these people, and

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all three of those fell through the cracks. I got

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no response after one or two messages. Back then, in

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November of twenty and twenty three, which shows just how

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long we've been on this case, I put out an

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open call for anyone who knew Chandler and would be

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open for an interview to contact me. I had our

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email address and a little bit of information about the podcast.

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I did not get any bites. Then, in May of

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twenty and twenty four, someone made a post on that

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forum titled quote.

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So I was Chandler's bunkie in Dane County jail.

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The post went on to say, quote.

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I know I'm going to regret this, but if you

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have anything within reason you want to ask, semi constructively.

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I have no delusions about this being read it and

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all about my jail bestie, I'll answer. They do, however,

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reserve the right to remain silent LBVs.

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That last acronym apparently means a laughing but very serious.

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This account went on to make two more posts in

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this forum with five pictures of various jail correspondents with

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Chandler Alderson. These letters that this person had been sending

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back and forth to Chandler seemed legitimate, and I reached

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out to them to see if they would be open

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for an interview, and they were. This person did request

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to remain anonymous, so the name we used during this

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interview as Wallace. They also provided additional correspondence to me

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privately outside of what was posted on Reddit, that verified

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beyond a reasonable doubt that this person had indeed spent

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time in jail with Chandler Alderson. Wallace had quite a

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bad call off during this interview. So I tried to

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edit all of that out, but there are a few

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that I had to keep in just for continuity's sake.

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This interview is much longer than the Andrew Smith interview

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I did. I had so many more questions for Wallace

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than I did for Smitty, and part of that was

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because Smitty had already been interviewed by Nick Rakeita, another

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YouTube lawyer, and you can look up his entire interview

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with Rakeita. They got into a ton of stuff, and

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also there was the trial testimony that we got from Andrew.

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Now I'm going to go ahead and play you this interview,

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but I do want to say something first, which is

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as the interview progressed, I kind of found it frustrating

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to talk to someone who was essentially a friend to Chandler.

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And you might sense a little bit of that frustration

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in my voice and in my tone. I think, personally

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just me that until Chandler seeks redemption for his actions,

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he is not a man to be friends with. As

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you know, in this podcast, we don't really pile on

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the offenders with name calling and that kind of thing.

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It's just not my style. But I do believe that

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the crimes Chandler committed in this lifetime will take extensive

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work to come back from, if it's even possible at all.

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And it pained me to hear someone who I felt

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like I could relate to this guy choose to put

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this person in his circle, spend emotional energy corresponding with

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this person, not necessarily in his close circle. But I

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feel there is an evil that surrounds Chandler, and that

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evil will be there until the day he chooses to

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confess and work towards making some kind of amends for

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his crime. If evil does exist, then Chandler surely is

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the human embodiment of it. Cunning, baffling, powerful evil. But

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I also understand Wallace's side of this story. When you

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are in the pen speak, you're surrounded by people who

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have made mistakes, and if you get into the habit

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of judging people for those mistakes, you will soon find

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yourself without any friends. And that's one thing you cannot

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afford when you're in such a situation. You need friends

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to survive, especially in a jail setting. But that's enough

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of me blabbering. Let me get right into it. The

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interview with Chandler Holderson's bunk mate starts now, really, okay,

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so you want me to call you Wallace? Is that right?

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Wallace is good? Sure, and you can.

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Call me TZ. That's basically my O that came from

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the film industry, and it kind of just carried over Sure, yeah,

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let's see and then you said, okay, well, at first

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you said maybe not a lot of questions about you,

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but then you said, maybe I could. What's uh, what

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do you think.

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We'll kind of feel it out. I mean, I think

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it would only be sure that there's a little bit

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of background about me. I mean, yeah, of course you're

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gonna mention that you vented me and everything. I'm I'm

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I'm sure a little bit of background wouldn't wouldn't be

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too much of a of a thing, but obvious if

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I feel if I feel like the boundary is pushed

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a little bit, I won't be afraid to say no,

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or you know, in retrospect, I'll say, hey, let's keep

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that out of there.

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So yeah, okay, that's that's actually works perfect. You actually

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stole the words out of my mouth, because that's one

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thing I've learned works really well, even though I've only

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done a few interviews. But it seems to be. I

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don't want to assume boundaries because I might miss out

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on a question that's very interesting. So if you do, comfort, yeah,

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just let me know. And it's no big deal. Okay,

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Well let's get started. So you go by Wallace and

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how we came across each other as I saw you

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post a thread on Reddit's saying you were a broom

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of Chandlers in the day drill a bunky. Yeah, yeah,

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do you want to just start there and just tell

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us whatever you want to about that?

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Yeah. I was incarcerated at Dane County Jail at that time.

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I believe it was around November of twenty one. All

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through twenty two and a couple months in I had

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gone through like two or three bunkies because there's you know,

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there's there's a high turnaround with a lot of peel

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holds and short timers and whatnot. So I was a

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bottom bunk and I was getting a new top bunk

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and this, uh, one day, this kid walks in a

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little goffey you kind of had a little bit of

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a bit of a hipster mustache on him and kind

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of struck me as a little ned Flanders asking I

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kind of chuckled a little bit, and you know, traditionally

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when a new guy comes into the pod and you know,

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everybody immediately scopes him outside and whatnot. So I knew

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that I had an open bunk, so I was trying

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to kind of draw the card for the new bunkie.

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So I saw him head off to my bunk and

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that game game like two or two or so man

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to kind of, you know, kind of situate himself. And

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so I walked back there and I have intended a

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fist bump. This is the tail end of COVID era,

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so social distancing is completely impossible while in jail, especially

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in a dorm like atmosphere. There's twenty five bunks and

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so there's about fifty people in each each pod, so

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you know, it's pretty passed. So I went over there,

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offered him fifth bump, and I said, hey, my name

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is redacted Wallace, and uh, they said, hey, how going,

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And then then he kind of struck me with something

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really funny. After we talked for a couple of seconds

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about just mating stuff, he explained where he was from,

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because he was coming from what's known as I guess

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would be considered the secure side of the jail where

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it's the old side of the jail where there's actual

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cells and it's the disciplinary housing and or housing for

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people with violent cases. And he had petitioned the share

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for the warden or sergeants to kind of give him

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an okay because he didn't have any conduct reports or

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anything to come over to the general population side where

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things aren't as strict. It's a lot more free flowing,

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a lot larger dayroom and whatnot. So he came in,

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he moved in, then he hit me with the old

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you know who I am, right, And I thought it

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was I thought it was funny because he wasn't doing

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it to be copier or anything, but it was just amusing.

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And I'm looking at him and I'm like, oh, you're

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that guy on the news, right, So that was kind

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of my first interaction flipped the guy and.

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On the news at that point a fair bit.

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I mean, the news is always kind of a saying

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that's on at least one or two of the chance

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one or two of the TVs. There's three TVs for

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pod and you know, some people keep it on Sports Center,

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and then there are some you know, antiquated racial divides

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with some of the other TVs. But what are you

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gonna do at Jale? But usually four o'clock the major

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news news is that happened throughout the day, and somebody

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is usually watching him. So I knew it was the

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top of the town. I'd seen it in the paper,

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but I really didn't pay too much of mine to

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it because I never knew I was going to run

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into the guy. He's like, Okay, I got my own

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thing going on this guy, whatever the fark happened whatever, right,

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Definitely I recognized his faith after he kind of said that,

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and it kind of kind of jogged something to me,

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So I was like, oh, not, well, I oh cool,

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and I guess what I said, but not in a

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way where it was glorified or anything, but it was

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kind of like, oh yeah.

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Yeah, before we get too deep into Chandler, kind of

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like we were talking about, can you tell us how

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long did you say you were in there in twenty

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twenty one? And maybe just how you whatever you're comfortable sharing,

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got to that.

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Yeah. I'm originally from Milwaukee, and I had I was

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working in Madison from time to time by contract and whatnot,

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and I had picked up a case a new case

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in medicine that I completely intended to fight. So yeah,

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I at that point, I believe I was in it

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for about two and a half months. I believe the

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pod was for a there's several pods, but it was

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a fifty man pod and as was right around when

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he came in. He he wandered into my life that way.

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Can you uh, you know, we can cut this part out,

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but do you want to talk? I noticed your point

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puts it on Reddit about heroin being a hell of

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a drug, hepsy, Do you want to share any of that?

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Yeah, I guess I could. Yeah, Uh, heroin is one

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hell of a drug. And I'm glad I put that

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behind me for for quite a while now, for for

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a number of years. And yeah, thank you, thank you.

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And you know, uh, I had a very dark period

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in my life where two extremely close people of people

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to me died and I spiraled into a very dark

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period and I just let my my addictions go completely

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and ended up ended up doing stupid things for money,

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and I totally regretted. And I'm just happy that's over.

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And yeah, glad to move on and keep it moving,

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as they say.

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Yeah, definitely, And you said one other thing. It says

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you're on your Reddit profile it said found out I'm

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dying in real life? Are you okay? Are you gonna

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all through with.

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Yeah? No, I I that was okay, Well that was updated.

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That was that's that's my ship post account. And that

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was a ship post account that I created before I

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went in in twenty twenty one. I have it updated

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the bio or anything. I just kind of logged in

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and ended up going down the channel or rabbit hole

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a little bit to see what people were actually saying

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about them. So, yeah, I am happy to say that

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I'm not dying iron Ralan. The reports to be dying

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have been greatly exaggerated.

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Okay, well that's good to hear. Well, yeah, can you

227
00:14:23.720 --> 00:14:29.279
tell us a little bit about what's uh, you know, like,

228
00:14:30.000 --> 00:14:32.000
so you got this feeling like I kind of want

229
00:14:32.000 --> 00:14:36.759
to check on Chandler. Did you just discover the subredit

230
00:14:36.879 --> 00:14:38.919
last night? Had you been on there before? And like

231
00:14:39.000 --> 00:14:41.960
what what pushed you to be Like, Okay, I want

232
00:14:41.960 --> 00:14:45.360
to share a few letters and do ama on there.

233
00:14:46.960 --> 00:14:52.519
Well, I remember talking with him while we were together.

234
00:14:53.159 --> 00:14:57.279
You got to understand that you're around people twenty four

235
00:14:57.320 --> 00:15:00.240
to seven, like in real life you. You know, you

236
00:15:00.320 --> 00:15:02.480
run into friends, you talk to him online once in

237
00:15:02.559 --> 00:15:05.320
a while, you text them, you run into them for

238
00:15:05.399 --> 00:15:08.559
coffee or something, and then you catch up. You know,

239
00:15:08.600 --> 00:15:11.480
there's no real catching up in jail because everything happens

240
00:15:11.519 --> 00:15:13.720
in real time and you get to witness all that.

241
00:15:14.399 --> 00:15:18.960
So conversations tend to, you know, go all directions. So

242
00:15:19.240 --> 00:15:22.919
eventually the topic was, well, you know, I'm getting out

243
00:15:23.519 --> 00:15:28.320
well before you are if everything goes terribly, so she

244
00:15:28.799 --> 00:15:32.000
you know, being online savvy, ready savvy, all those other

245
00:15:32.840 --> 00:15:36.600
all the other social media platforms. I asked them, well,

246
00:15:36.840 --> 00:15:41.600
you want me to do anything for you, look into

247
00:15:41.639 --> 00:15:45.600
some things for you, and he was nicely, whatever, I mean,

248
00:15:45.799 --> 00:15:48.360
you got to live your life and whatnot. But as

249
00:15:48.399 --> 00:15:51.159
a solid of course, I try not to throw them

250
00:15:51.200 --> 00:15:53.879
under the bus or anything, and I try to remain objective,

251
00:15:55.279 --> 00:15:59.000
you know. He We had many conversations about many things,

252
00:15:59.080 --> 00:16:04.639
but some things and due to an extenuating circumstances that

253
00:16:05.679 --> 00:16:10.600
the jail brotherhood experience is is an odd bond that

254
00:16:10.639 --> 00:16:14.960
you share with people, and I that's why I don't

255
00:16:14.960 --> 00:16:18.519
wish to make any speculations or throw anything out there

256
00:16:18.919 --> 00:16:24.840
that would damage his chances for appeal or anything that

257
00:16:24.960 --> 00:16:29.960
you know, the American Constitution guarantees you regardless of innocence

258
00:16:30.200 --> 00:16:35.720
or guilt. And like I had said on the subreddit

259
00:16:35.799 --> 00:16:39.120
that I just never passed the judgments on the guy

260
00:16:39.240 --> 00:16:45.480
because one, it is kind of counterproductive in an enclosed

261
00:16:45.600 --> 00:16:49.840
system like jail, where you have to basically be a

262
00:16:49.840 --> 00:16:53.919
bedfellow of this guy literally and the guy is living

263
00:16:54.000 --> 00:16:56.519
right above you, and you're trying to be the most

264
00:16:56.559 --> 00:16:59.759
hospitable type of guy you can be, and I shared

265
00:17:00.279 --> 00:17:05.680
with incredibly unstable people. And obviously, when you first meet

266
00:17:05.720 --> 00:17:09.200
the guy, and then his reputation has definitely preceded him,

267
00:17:09.599 --> 00:17:13.000
you're a little apprehensive at first. But after a while

268
00:17:13.559 --> 00:17:17.400
it became very apparent that this guy was just a dude.

269
00:17:18.359 --> 00:17:20.160
He was just a dude. He was a young guy,

270
00:17:20.720 --> 00:17:24.119
a little hip, a little dorky, and kind of like

271
00:17:24.200 --> 00:17:29.200
right up my alley, and so we joked about some

272
00:17:29.359 --> 00:17:34.920
memes and ship posts and stuff, and yeah, it just

273
00:17:36.119 --> 00:17:39.759
it just kind of clicked pretty quickly and kind of

274
00:17:39.799 --> 00:17:43.039
invited him into the uh, into the fold of the

275
00:17:43.039 --> 00:17:45.799
group of guides. And you know, some of those guys

276
00:17:46.039 --> 00:17:51.799
were I guess bigger fans of his alleged works than me.

277
00:17:52.119 --> 00:17:54.440
I mean some of them were kind of enamored with them.

278
00:17:55.920 --> 00:17:58.680
Nine times on nine point one time you don't ask,

279
00:17:58.720 --> 00:18:01.400
you don't tell.

280
00:18:00.240 --> 00:18:03.519
You a little bit about when he was going through trial.

281
00:18:03.559 --> 00:18:05.799
Would he kind of get called out for the day

282
00:18:05.880 --> 00:18:07.079
and then come back.

283
00:18:07.039 --> 00:18:11.920
Or yeah, it kind of it came. We kind of

284
00:18:12.119 --> 00:18:15.000
had a lighthearted joke, Oh, he's going off, he's going

285
00:18:15.000 --> 00:18:17.000
off to work, because it was it was a pretty

286
00:18:17.039 --> 00:18:21.000
constant nine to five schedule that he was keeping. So

287
00:18:21.559 --> 00:18:26.160
he would get up for count, we'd have breakfast, we'd

288
00:18:26.200 --> 00:18:27.920
go back to our bunks and chill out for a

289
00:18:27.960 --> 00:18:33.480
couple of minutes, and then he would end up usually

290
00:18:33.480 --> 00:18:35.640
getting up a little bit before me, and then he

291
00:18:35.680 --> 00:18:38.640
would be sitting with coffee and kind of doodling watching

292
00:18:39.359 --> 00:18:43.920
morning TV because morning morning is a surprisingly tranquil time

293
00:18:44.400 --> 00:18:46.839
in at least the pod that we were in, and

294
00:18:46.960 --> 00:18:50.039
so you can you can hear the TV. Everything's really quiet,

295
00:18:50.119 --> 00:18:53.559
and it's just kind of a refreshing thing compared to

296
00:18:53.640 --> 00:18:59.599
the cacophony of sounds and just activity that happened later

297
00:19:00.039 --> 00:19:03.480
later throughout the day that peaks in the evening. So

298
00:19:03.599 --> 00:19:07.079
it's a refreshing change of pace. He would get caffeined up,

299
00:19:07.400 --> 00:19:11.000
because that's the main vice in jail. In a few

300
00:19:11.000 --> 00:19:14.480
scoops of instant coffee and just get turnt, as we

301
00:19:14.599 --> 00:19:18.920
used to say, and then a movement deputy would come

302
00:19:19.119 --> 00:19:22.680
and pick him up and he would be gone for

303
00:19:22.759 --> 00:19:24.759
the rest of the day. You would eat the same

304
00:19:24.839 --> 00:19:29.039
meal as everybody else in a holding cell when they

305
00:19:29.039 --> 00:19:34.119
would break the recess. But yeah, it would be an

306
00:19:34.160 --> 00:19:38.480
all day thing. I think it lasted. I want to

307
00:19:38.519 --> 00:19:43.680
say a few weeks, because towards the end of it,

308
00:19:44.680 --> 00:19:50.279
if I recall correctly, it was after all the deliberations

309
00:19:50.359 --> 00:19:55.000
or whatnot were through, but before the jury. I you know,

310
00:19:55.240 --> 00:19:59.400
I believe this was right around the time he was

311
00:20:00.160 --> 00:20:05.279
off the unit and there was a random COVID testing

312
00:20:05.920 --> 00:20:10.279
that procedure that was going on, and he was just, uh,

313
00:20:11.039 --> 00:20:13.839
he was he was out of the pod and everybody

314
00:20:13.839 --> 00:20:17.680
else in the pod had been clean and been tested negative,

315
00:20:19.240 --> 00:20:23.759
but he tested positive for COVID and he had he

316
00:20:23.880 --> 00:20:27.640
was asymptomatic. And you know, we actually have some speculation

317
00:20:27.839 --> 00:20:31.519
that was a false positive. It was taken under different

318
00:20:31.559 --> 00:20:33.920
circumstances than the rest of us in the pod. And

319
00:20:34.759 --> 00:20:38.160
to be honest, a lot of the healthcare workers that

320
00:20:38.279 --> 00:20:41.519
work in the jail work in the jail because they

321
00:20:41.519 --> 00:20:44.079
can't get a job at our actual hospital because they're

322
00:20:44.160 --> 00:20:48.839
not that good. And that's the sad truth about health

323
00:20:48.880 --> 00:20:52.359
care in jail. So, I mean, whether they botched it

324
00:20:52.480 --> 00:20:55.160
or not, he was brought up back to the pod

325
00:20:55.319 --> 00:21:01.000
and then within minutes he was pulled back out again

326
00:21:01.960 --> 00:21:05.880
to move. So they packed up all those things again

327
00:21:06.000 --> 00:21:11.000
and there's like a small vestibule sally port, double doored

328
00:21:11.319 --> 00:21:14.319
thing right outside the pod, the door to get out

329
00:21:14.319 --> 00:21:17.960
to the hallway. And so he was, he was in

330
00:21:18.000 --> 00:21:20.400
this vestibule, and you know, I had a couple of

331
00:21:20.400 --> 00:21:22.960
his guys. We asked the death Hey, can we go

332
00:21:23.039 --> 00:21:25.720
up to the window say by to them, you know,

333
00:21:25.839 --> 00:21:29.200
make it quick. So went up there, I said, hey,

334
00:21:29.640 --> 00:21:33.079
this that the other thing. I'll keep in touch, et cetera,

335
00:21:33.119 --> 00:21:36.960
et cetera. So they moved him out. We're all pretty bummed,

336
00:21:37.440 --> 00:21:40.440
and then, you know, immediately we all started making conspiracy

337
00:21:40.480 --> 00:21:42.279
theories because of what else, What the hell else are

338
00:21:42.279 --> 00:21:44.839
you going to do in jail. They ended up moving

339
00:21:44.880 --> 00:21:48.160
him to a split pod, which is a twenty five

340
00:21:48.200 --> 00:21:52.599
man pod that was situated right next door to us,

341
00:21:52.680 --> 00:21:57.119
and it shared a fire door a emergency egg at

342
00:21:57.200 --> 00:21:59.720
fire door. So for a couple of days we were

343
00:21:59.720 --> 00:22:04.480
passing notes under this the fire door, just to kind

344
00:22:04.480 --> 00:22:07.359
of keep in touch with them. Needs to say, I

345
00:22:07.440 --> 00:22:10.000
was quite bummed. A lot of us were bummed. I

346
00:22:10.079 --> 00:22:12.759
got a new bunkie, kind of kind of a bummer.

347
00:22:13.279 --> 00:22:19.359
So after about two weeks, I put in what's known

348
00:22:19.400 --> 00:22:23.720
as a kite. A kite is traditionally a note passed

349
00:22:24.160 --> 00:22:28.519
out of a cell blocker way, but in Dane County parlance,

350
00:22:29.160 --> 00:22:33.599
you put in a deputy request and you make up

351
00:22:33.640 --> 00:22:36.920
some bullshit like, hey, I'm being threatened. I don't feel

352
00:22:36.920 --> 00:22:40.160
comfortable here. There's someone in here that I have beef

353
00:22:40.279 --> 00:22:44.119
with on the street. And most of the time they'll

354
00:22:44.160 --> 00:22:49.000
be like, okay, they'll move you. And actually I had

355
00:22:49.599 --> 00:22:53.720
put into mental health and I told them that the

356
00:22:53.759 --> 00:22:58.319
just the large population in the pod was given me anxiety,

357
00:22:58.359 --> 00:23:02.759
which you know it does, absolutely does. So they moved

358
00:23:02.759 --> 00:23:05.359
me to a split pod on the same floor, but

359
00:23:05.440 --> 00:23:08.920
it was it was a different split pod, and I

360
00:23:09.039 --> 00:23:12.839
was there for about two weeks, and honestly it was boring.

361
00:23:13.160 --> 00:23:15.640
There was nobody that played cards or anything or anything

362
00:23:15.680 --> 00:23:18.000
that I like to do. So I put in a

363
00:23:18.039 --> 00:23:21.519
request to leave that pod too, and through luck of

364
00:23:21.519 --> 00:23:26.160
the draw, I made it to Pods four, I where

365
00:23:26.400 --> 00:23:31.079
Chander was, and I remember walking up to the vestibule

366
00:23:32.000 --> 00:23:35.559
and I peered in and he's and he looks at

367
00:23:35.599 --> 00:23:39.480
me and his face lights up like a like a

368
00:23:39.519 --> 00:23:42.319
puppy strafe lights up like a puppy, and he starts

369
00:23:42.359 --> 00:23:44.759
waving at me, and I started waving back, and I

370
00:23:45.440 --> 00:23:48.799
and I, uh, I kind of pumped my fist a

371
00:23:48.799 --> 00:23:53.079
little bit. I you know, it was you know, if

372
00:23:53.119 --> 00:23:55.279
it was any more sappy, it would probably be like

373
00:23:55.319 --> 00:23:59.759
one of those cheesy eighties movies were too. A strange

374
00:23:59.799 --> 00:24:03.119
friend is running through each other at an airport, just

375
00:24:03.200 --> 00:24:06.759
running through each other's arms with ye kind of gotta

376
00:24:06.799 --> 00:24:09.559
be a little more low.

377
00:24:09.440 --> 00:24:13.319
Tee than that in jail, right, So you guys were

378
00:24:13.319 --> 00:24:16.720
pretty close. I guess through being bunk baits. Was he

379
00:24:16.839 --> 00:24:19.519
a top or bottom bunk?

380
00:24:20.400 --> 00:24:24.079
Just just a phrasing. He was the top? He was?

381
00:24:24.119 --> 00:24:26.279
He was a top, And I guess that would make

382
00:24:26.359 --> 00:24:26.960
me the pop.

383
00:24:29.799 --> 00:24:33.799
Yeah, I had. Being that close to each other, you're

384
00:24:33.799 --> 00:24:36.160
going to form some kind of friendship bond. And it

385
00:24:36.200 --> 00:24:37.920
sounds like you guys had a lot in common.

386
00:24:39.319 --> 00:24:44.440
Yeah, you know, with just social media savvy, posting memes

387
00:24:44.440 --> 00:24:46.559
and stuff like that. A lot of guys in there

388
00:24:46.839 --> 00:24:50.839
are like mean guys are strictly drug guys. You know,

389
00:24:50.880 --> 00:24:53.599
they drugs, They deal drugs, and that's entire their entire

390
00:24:53.640 --> 00:24:58.920
life where they or they're online for doing much different

391
00:24:58.960 --> 00:25:04.039
things I'm not interested in. So you kind of pick

392
00:25:04.119 --> 00:25:06.039
the people that you want to hang out. And you know,

393
00:25:06.359 --> 00:25:12.039
I was never one for jail politics or sitting around

394
00:25:12.079 --> 00:25:17.000
discussing jail politics or gang politics or anything like that.

395
00:25:17.319 --> 00:25:23.599
I consider myself a person irl. I live and thrive

396
00:25:23.839 --> 00:25:26.920
in real life. There's people that come to jail and

397
00:25:27.759 --> 00:25:32.839
immediately they're in their elements, and so I always feel

398
00:25:32.839 --> 00:25:36.000
slightly slightly clenched in parts because I kind of have

399
00:25:36.079 --> 00:25:38.640
to assimilate to a lifestyle that is not me.

400
00:25:38.960 --> 00:25:43.599
So I watched the trial as it was going on.

401
00:25:44.799 --> 00:25:49.039
Yeah, yeah, well, I think it's mostly just the highlights.

402
00:25:49.119 --> 00:25:53.519
I don't think there was any live footage. I don't

403
00:25:53.559 --> 00:25:56.039
think we had court TV. I don't know if it

404
00:25:56.119 --> 00:25:59.440
was even broadcast on court TV, but we did have

405
00:25:59.519 --> 00:26:04.640
a base fifty channel cable hookup, so we had some

406
00:26:04.880 --> 00:26:09.759
channels and we would watch. We watched three caps on

407
00:26:10.240 --> 00:26:12.599
the news, we used to call it check it out

408
00:26:12.680 --> 00:26:15.400
Sports Center for the highlights, That's what we used to

409
00:26:15.400 --> 00:26:20.039
call it. So and a lot of times it's hard

410
00:26:20.359 --> 00:26:27.559
because the media will focus just on what the prosecution says.

411
00:26:27.759 --> 00:26:33.359
But then again in retrospect the trial, the defense really

412
00:26:33.359 --> 00:26:36.519
didn't put up any sort of case, you know, and

413
00:26:36.960 --> 00:26:40.440
so it's it's hard to kind of give both sides

414
00:26:40.480 --> 00:26:43.839
of the story when only one side is really being presented.

415
00:26:44.240 --> 00:26:47.079
I know some people will have take this aspodder, but

416
00:26:47.519 --> 00:26:50.039
he'll say he'll kind of go over the things that

417
00:26:50.119 --> 00:26:53.839
happened and explain these things in great detail, and then

418
00:26:53.880 --> 00:26:56.279
none of that stuff would be covered on the news

419
00:26:56.359 --> 00:26:56.799
or anything.

420
00:26:56.960 --> 00:26:59.799
So I was going to ask you about kind of

421
00:27:00.000 --> 00:27:03.160
related to that, is that I think you mentioned on

422
00:27:03.200 --> 00:27:07.599
Reddit that the defense went off script or he felt

423
00:27:07.599 --> 00:27:10.200
like they had a plan and then they didn't do that.

424
00:27:10.359 --> 00:27:13.000
Can you think of any examples or what that.

425
00:27:14.480 --> 00:27:19.799
Yeah, the most big example that pops in my head

426
00:27:20.680 --> 00:27:24.799
was Chandler would say, Okay, they're telling me they don't

427
00:27:24.799 --> 00:27:26.920
want to object to these things because they don't want

428
00:27:26.960 --> 00:27:32.200
to be too aggressive against the prosecution, and then it

429
00:27:32.240 --> 00:27:35.039
would make them look bad for some things and whatnot.

430
00:27:35.079 --> 00:27:38.480
And I'm like, okay, well that kind of both bogus

431
00:27:38.559 --> 00:27:41.079
that they told you that, but okay, well if that's

432
00:27:41.119 --> 00:27:45.640
their if that's their game plan, and they and he

433
00:27:45.839 --> 00:27:49.240
said that the that their big move was going to

434
00:27:49.240 --> 00:27:53.119
be the closing arguments, and they had a twenty minute

435
00:27:53.240 --> 00:27:58.279
long speech dressing down a lot of things, which kind

436
00:27:58.279 --> 00:28:00.319
of kind of struck me as weird, because I mean,

437
00:28:00.400 --> 00:28:02.160
that would be something that you would kind of like

438
00:28:02.240 --> 00:28:06.200
to do while these witnesses are on the stand. But

439
00:28:06.359 --> 00:28:07.720
I mean, if you're just going to go for the

440
00:28:07.799 --> 00:28:11.799
last second hail Mary, then go for it. But as

441
00:28:11.799 --> 00:28:15.839
it turned out, they had maybe three minutes tops of

442
00:28:15.960 --> 00:28:19.279
some sort of closing, some sebilelances of a closing argument.

443
00:28:20.240 --> 00:28:26.440
And he came back pretty pissed, And yeah, he seemed

444
00:28:26.759 --> 00:28:28.839
he seemed like, what the well, what the fuck? This

445
00:28:28.920 --> 00:28:31.359
isn't like anything that we had talked about. And I

446
00:28:31.400 --> 00:28:34.519
remember leading up to that he had shown me notes

447
00:28:34.720 --> 00:28:39.160
that he had written and in his lawyer's handwriting about

448
00:28:39.279 --> 00:28:42.799
things that they were going to cover, and it just

449
00:28:42.880 --> 00:28:47.039
didn't seem like that was anything that they covered.

450
00:28:47.720 --> 00:28:49.799
You know, do you think of any specifics?

451
00:28:49.799 --> 00:28:54.319
Then nothing really specific that I would like to kind

452
00:28:54.319 --> 00:28:56.799
of get into. I don't know if that's kind of

453
00:28:56.839 --> 00:28:59.519
something he would like to use in the future, but

454
00:29:00.200 --> 00:29:05.039
I do remember a lot more of an elaborate plan.

455
00:29:06.000 --> 00:29:08.079
They were able to show the entirety of their closing

456
00:29:08.160 --> 00:29:12.000
arguments on the five o'clock news, So I mean, there

457
00:29:12.000 --> 00:29:14.680
really wasn't too much that they really went into.

458
00:29:15.440 --> 00:29:18.680
Did he tell you the closing argument was only three minutes?

459
00:29:20.839 --> 00:29:22.960
No, I'm making guests a bit there.

460
00:29:23.359 --> 00:29:26.680
Yeah, I said, I've just kind of gotten.

461
00:29:26.359 --> 00:29:30.319
Back out to society. I hadn't gone down the wormhole

462
00:29:30.359 --> 00:29:32.799
of actually watching the footage in its entirety.

463
00:29:33.160 --> 00:29:36.559
Oh man, so so much crap.

464
00:29:36.880 --> 00:29:41.400
Yeah. Yeah, I was alive for the OJ thing and

465
00:29:41.480 --> 00:29:42.960
I remember that well on TV.

466
00:29:43.240 --> 00:29:47.960
So yeah, I was curious about that. About the closing argument.

467
00:29:54.359 --> 00:29:56.720
It's funny because I have about fifty questions I want

468
00:29:56.720 --> 00:29:59.119
to ask you, So I'm just going in a direction.

469
00:29:58.880 --> 00:30:02.799
But just just shoot a man, just throw up.

470
00:30:02.880 --> 00:30:06.559
It was, Uh, did you catch Chandler in any kind

471
00:30:06.599 --> 00:30:09.079
of and I know you guys were friends, but was

472
00:30:09.079 --> 00:30:11.640
there any anything you can think of where it was

473
00:30:11.759 --> 00:30:15.559
kind of seemed like he was maybe making up a

474
00:30:15.640 --> 00:30:19.960
lie on the spot or just anything like that. Or

475
00:30:20.039 --> 00:30:22.240
just lying about something that was unusual.

476
00:30:26.559 --> 00:30:31.519
No, However, there's a coveat to that, because, like I said,

477
00:30:31.640 --> 00:30:37.680
I really don't pry into people's cases or business that much.

478
00:30:38.400 --> 00:30:41.519
So frankly he could have. He could have told me

479
00:30:42.200 --> 00:30:45.599
really anything, and I would just kind of accept it

480
00:30:46.000 --> 00:30:50.799
and not really pry into it. However, living in a

481
00:30:50.880 --> 00:30:54.359
jail society and how you conduct yourself on a day

482
00:30:54.400 --> 00:30:59.920
to day level, he appeared very truthful all the time,

483
00:31:00.400 --> 00:31:03.440
and the real straight shooter was a man of his word,

484
00:31:03.839 --> 00:31:07.559
always paid his debts. So I mean, really that's the

485
00:31:07.599 --> 00:31:11.000
only thing I can go off of because I had

486
00:31:11.039 --> 00:31:15.039
no contact to the outside world to kind of, you know,

487
00:31:15.200 --> 00:31:16.640
fast check anything.

488
00:31:17.079 --> 00:31:21.920
Sure. I think that's what fascinates I mean, myself and

489
00:31:21.960 --> 00:31:25.400
so many people about this case is that in so

490
00:31:25.519 --> 00:31:30.720
many regards he really was a normal person and then

491
00:31:30.799 --> 00:31:35.079
this this crime, which, of course you being friends with him,

492
00:31:35.079 --> 00:31:38.160
I understand giving him the benefit of the doubt and

493
00:31:38.319 --> 00:31:41.200
just and on the podcast, one thing I try to

494
00:31:41.240 --> 00:31:44.960
steer away from is just like neat Like, there's so

495
00:31:45.039 --> 00:31:47.279
many podcasts where you just sit around and say what

496
00:31:47.400 --> 00:31:51.480
a piece of shit you know, and everybody joined, which

497
00:31:51.519 --> 00:31:53.519
I get, I guess there's a place for that. But

498
00:31:55.079 --> 00:31:57.039
now now I'm left with the statement I was going

499
00:31:57.119 --> 00:31:59.519
to make, And I don't really know what what point

500
00:31:59.519 --> 00:32:04.480
I was say, but uh, is that I haven't been

501
00:32:06.319 --> 00:32:11.400
so convinced by a case such as Chandlers probably in

502
00:32:11.440 --> 00:32:15.720
my life, like after watching the entire trial. Sure, it's

503
00:32:15.839 --> 00:32:17.839
kind of a thing where like, yeah, there's a point

504
00:32:17.920 --> 00:32:21.119
zero zero one percent chance that there was some And

505
00:32:21.160 --> 00:32:23.200
I know you can't like, I'm not sure why I'm

506
00:32:23.200 --> 00:32:27.279
posing this to you, because I know you don't want to.

507
00:32:27.440 --> 00:32:29.359
You know, you have a relationship with this guy and

508
00:32:29.400 --> 00:32:31.079
you don't want to throw him under the bus. But

509
00:32:31.200 --> 00:32:33.759
is there anything that you can speak to that in

510
00:32:33.839 --> 00:32:38.359
terms of you browsing redded maybe maybe learning about the case.

511
00:32:38.519 --> 00:32:42.039
Is it maybe talk about just your maintaining the neutrality

512
00:32:42.200 --> 00:32:43.519
or just something around that.

513
00:32:44.720 --> 00:32:48.279
Oh, well, you know, I you know you you're well aware.

514
00:32:48.440 --> 00:32:53.839
You're well aware that the overwhelming majority of people, oh

515
00:32:54.000 --> 00:32:58.240
swam don he's the other thing. I get it. I

516
00:32:58.319 --> 00:33:03.200
get it. The court of opinion, regardless or guilt or not.

517
00:33:03.440 --> 00:33:07.359
That's it's a it's a real thing. However, being in

518
00:33:07.400 --> 00:33:11.720
a scenario such as jail, there is a certain resentment

519
00:33:11.759 --> 00:33:14.599
that you have for the penal system, especially when you

520
00:33:14.680 --> 00:33:18.400
kind of get the justice system, the penal system all that,

521
00:33:18.680 --> 00:33:24.319
when you're kind of upon in it, so you have it. Yeah,

522
00:33:24.880 --> 00:33:28.400
there's there's a big party that starts rooting for the underdog,

523
00:33:28.559 --> 00:33:31.799
you know, and the underdog's youth and people like you.

524
00:33:32.920 --> 00:33:37.079
Going back to when he was going through the trial,

525
00:33:37.720 --> 00:33:40.400
you said maybe he brought some notes back, which is

526
00:33:40.440 --> 00:33:43.200
something I noticed when I was watching it live, was

527
00:33:43.240 --> 00:33:46.359
that he was writing a lot. Did you ever see

528
00:33:46.400 --> 00:33:49.079
what he was writing. Was he like actually taking notes

529
00:33:49.200 --> 00:33:51.200
or doodling or do you have any idea?

530
00:33:52.000 --> 00:33:54.920
Yeah, he was a dueler. I don't really think it

531
00:33:55.000 --> 00:33:57.119
was like in the terms of some people that duel

532
00:33:57.319 --> 00:34:01.720
just had like a like a nervous tick for anything

533
00:34:01.920 --> 00:34:05.599
or something to kind of just occupy a manual fixation

534
00:34:05.759 --> 00:34:08.440
or anything. But no, he did take notes. He did

535
00:34:08.480 --> 00:34:12.119
take extensive notes. A lot of it were things that

536
00:34:12.199 --> 00:34:16.480
he would give to his lawyer or discuss with his

537
00:34:16.599 --> 00:34:19.880
lawyer during through a break, or show his lawyer during

538
00:34:19.880 --> 00:34:23.880
the trial, things that he felt were indiscrepancies with what

539
00:34:24.039 --> 00:34:28.800
actually happened his side of events. So yeah, he would

540
00:34:28.880 --> 00:34:29.400
keep notes.

541
00:34:30.079 --> 00:34:32.480
Do you remember any of those? I mean, it probably

542
00:34:32.480 --> 00:34:36.400
would be hard to but any discrepancies that he brought

543
00:34:36.480 --> 00:34:38.960
up or mentioned to you, or anything he wrote down.

544
00:34:41.119 --> 00:34:43.079
A couple come to mind, but I don't feel real

545
00:34:43.159 --> 00:34:46.559
comfortable sharing them with them with you unfortunately. You know.

546
00:34:46.920 --> 00:34:51.920
Yeah, one thing people really asked about, I know, you

547
00:34:51.960 --> 00:34:55.360
went into it a little bit on read it was

548
00:34:55.679 --> 00:35:00.480
his and cats relationship and specifically the like when it

549
00:35:00.679 --> 00:35:05.800
ended he remember was it a phone call he got

550
00:35:05.840 --> 00:35:07.239
where she ended it with him?

551
00:35:07.360 --> 00:35:13.880
Or I knew that they had shared text messages together

552
00:35:13.920 --> 00:35:18.519
because you could X for exorbitant fee on these tablets

553
00:35:18.679 --> 00:35:22.559
that were available to us. They for what it appeared,

554
00:35:22.599 --> 00:35:26.199
they continued in relationship for a while. Definitely, not not

555
00:35:26.320 --> 00:35:28.840
while the trial was going. That it was well over

556
00:35:28.880 --> 00:35:36.079
by then, I believe. So all the pre trial meetings

557
00:35:36.159 --> 00:35:39.000
and you know, all the pre trial dates and all

558
00:35:39.079 --> 00:35:44.679
that stuff, I believed that they were still together. He

559
00:35:44.719 --> 00:35:46.719
really didn't get into it all that much. Once in

560
00:35:46.760 --> 00:35:49.800
a while, you know, everybody kind of vents about, yeah,

561
00:35:49.840 --> 00:35:54.320
my girl be tripping and whatnot. So Chandler was kind

562
00:35:54.320 --> 00:35:58.440
of more on the edge of like, oh it really

563
00:35:58.480 --> 00:36:03.519
it really upset and that Tat had cooperated with the

564
00:36:03.559 --> 00:36:06.239
police to the point that she did a lot of

565
00:36:06.320 --> 00:36:08.800
things that he had said were like but he didn't

566
00:36:08.840 --> 00:36:12.000
have to give give them any He could have just

567
00:36:12.039 --> 00:36:16.840
declined an interview or anything like that, or beyond that.

568
00:36:16.960 --> 00:36:19.760
I really didn't get too far into that. I knew

569
00:36:19.760 --> 00:36:24.960
that they continue to be together, maybe probably on an

570
00:36:25.000 --> 00:36:30.400
open level, probably on a level where they were probably

571
00:36:30.440 --> 00:36:33.840
broken up but still talking. It kind of came to

572
00:36:33.920 --> 00:36:40.480
a point where I believe that she probably just winded over,

573
00:36:40.920 --> 00:36:45.119
but also at the same time, Chandler did too, because

574
00:36:45.119 --> 00:36:49.280
it was running him regged. But then again, you're in

575
00:36:49.320 --> 00:36:52.280
a very odd spot in your life, and it's very

576
00:36:52.320 --> 00:36:56.960
lonely in jail, and you know, familiar female voice is

577
00:36:57.440 --> 00:37:03.400
always appreciated, and to have that companionship your friends can't

578
00:37:03.440 --> 00:37:07.840
really give you, and it's it's rough. I understand why

579
00:37:07.960 --> 00:37:11.519
they hung on, probably as long as they did, but

580
00:37:12.079 --> 00:37:14.599
I really didn't sit down and ever listen to his

581
00:37:14.679 --> 00:37:18.440
phone golf. So that's that's for him, that's his moment

582
00:37:18.519 --> 00:37:19.639
to do what he does.

583
00:37:20.159 --> 00:37:22.199
That was actually gonna be my next question. Have you

584
00:37:22.320 --> 00:37:24.880
listened to any of the or maybe are you aware

585
00:37:24.960 --> 00:37:28.039
of the phone calls between them? On YouTube?

586
00:37:28.920 --> 00:37:32.679
I think I saw a link fro him, and honestly,

587
00:37:32.760 --> 00:37:35.360
I would feel kind of dirty listening to it. I

588
00:37:36.159 --> 00:37:38.320
don't think. I don't think I could bring myself to

589
00:37:38.360 --> 00:37:43.000
do that, because I I've been you know, I've lost

590
00:37:43.000 --> 00:37:47.199
your relationship while while in jail, and it hurt and

591
00:37:47.239 --> 00:37:51.760
it sucks, and we're cordial to this day. But she's

592
00:37:51.800 --> 00:37:55.119
moved on and I moved on, and I mean the

593
00:37:55.199 --> 00:37:58.280
guy was under an intense amount of stress, and I

594
00:37:58.920 --> 00:38:02.599
know both already has probably said things. Yeah, it just

595
00:38:02.639 --> 00:38:04.920
feels like a private moment that I don't want to

596
00:38:05.000 --> 00:38:05.519
intrude on.

597
00:38:05.800 --> 00:38:08.360
For them, it's a lot of it's very boring. To

598
00:38:08.360 --> 00:38:11.199
be honest, I just listened to it because I felt

599
00:38:11.239 --> 00:38:14.480
kind of compelled to to cover the story. That's what

600
00:38:14.559 --> 00:38:18.760
I think people are curious about as far as how

601
00:38:18.880 --> 00:38:21.320
or whyatt ended, because I think the last call we

602
00:38:21.480 --> 00:38:25.639
got was, you know, just a very happy, cheery call,

603
00:38:25.920 --> 00:38:28.119
and then that there were no more calls after that.

604
00:38:29.039 --> 00:38:29.280
Yeah.

605
00:38:30.039 --> 00:38:30.880
Yeah, To be.

606
00:38:30.719 --> 00:38:35.400
Honest, I think I think that it actually happened over

607
00:38:35.599 --> 00:38:41.960
a text like yeah, that makes sense if I remember correctly.

608
00:38:42.239 --> 00:38:45.599
I remember just one day he said, well me hatter

609
00:38:45.679 --> 00:38:49.800
over and I was just like you all right, and

610
00:38:49.840 --> 00:38:56.480
he's like, yeah, yeah, probably fine, And I kind of

611
00:38:56.480 --> 00:38:57.840
want to say that was a little bit of the

612
00:38:57.920 --> 00:39:01.519
end of it. He had some strong opinions about what happened,

613
00:39:01.559 --> 00:39:04.679
but he always was very into her. He was always

614
00:39:04.760 --> 00:39:12.960
very into it. He's an incredibly non confrontational rand a

615
00:39:13.039 --> 00:39:17.559
guy like he he doesn't have a temper, at least

616
00:39:17.559 --> 00:39:20.760
from what I've noticed. There was only one time that

617
00:39:20.840 --> 00:39:24.199
I have that he ever raised his voice, and it

618
00:39:24.239 --> 00:39:29.679
was actually to me. But yeah, in his defense, I

619
00:39:29.880 --> 00:39:34.000
was being very annoying one morning, and it was leading

620
00:39:34.119 --> 00:39:38.239
up to the trial. He was drinking his coffee, I think,

621
00:39:38.280 --> 00:39:42.199
reading the paper, doodling and stuff, and I came by

622
00:39:42.239 --> 00:39:45.440
and I was kind of in a hyper semi manic

623
00:39:45.559 --> 00:39:49.199
sort of mood and I'm just kind of being goofy.

624
00:39:49.519 --> 00:39:53.960
And one of the things that I kind of turned

625
00:39:54.000 --> 00:39:57.599
him on to was like free word association. Like that

626
00:39:57.760 --> 00:40:00.079
was like a word game that me and tell my

627
00:40:00.239 --> 00:40:03.440
friends have done for years. Like, so you would say

628
00:40:04.119 --> 00:40:06.559
one thing and then like the next thing that comes

629
00:40:06.599 --> 00:40:09.480
to your mind, you know, just the most random things,

630
00:40:09.639 --> 00:40:12.440
and it can get pretty hilarious. So I was on

631
00:40:12.440 --> 00:40:14.400
one of those kicks and I was just kind of

632
00:40:14.440 --> 00:40:18.320
being annoying he and he did it. He just kind

633
00:40:18.360 --> 00:40:20.719
of just kind of slammed his pen on the table

634
00:40:21.360 --> 00:40:26.239
and he said, dude, please shut up. It's like firmly.

635
00:40:26.360 --> 00:40:29.280
But he wasn't like screaming at me. You know, he

636
00:40:29.320 --> 00:40:32.119
didn't like get aggressive or anything. He was just being

637
00:40:33.880 --> 00:40:36.920
very assertive about it. And I was like, okay, I

638
00:40:37.000 --> 00:40:42.039
read you. You know I read you. So I said sorry,

639
00:40:42.280 --> 00:40:45.320
got up, gave me some space, did some other stuff.

640
00:40:45.800 --> 00:40:48.639
A couple a couple of hours later, maybe not even that,

641
00:40:48.719 --> 00:40:51.920
Larry he came up and he he apologized to me.

642
00:40:52.440 --> 00:40:54.480
They said, hey, I'm sorry, I'm just going through it

643
00:40:54.519 --> 00:40:56.599
last year right now. And I said, I get it.

644
00:40:56.719 --> 00:40:59.880
I get it entirely. I was being annoying. Sorry, Bud.

645
00:41:00.239 --> 00:41:02.760
We shook up, shook hands, and that was the end

646
00:41:02.760 --> 00:41:03.000
of it.

647
00:41:04.519 --> 00:41:07.599
Did he did you ever see him showing emotion that

648
00:41:07.719 --> 00:41:10.880
his parents were dead? You know, putting aside if he

649
00:41:10.960 --> 00:41:13.119
did it or not. Was he did you see it

650
00:41:13.159 --> 00:41:14.760
like mourning for his parents?

651
00:41:17.480 --> 00:41:22.280
Not in like a traditional sense where you would like see,

652
00:41:22.800 --> 00:41:26.639
you know, tears streaming down someone's face. A lot of

653
00:41:26.679 --> 00:41:31.239
people like to like it into a psychopath, a sociopath

654
00:41:31.800 --> 00:41:37.119
being emotionless. He's just you know, eccentric in the way

655
00:41:37.159 --> 00:41:43.079
where he's very deadpan. As far as expressing emotions, it's

656
00:41:43.320 --> 00:41:47.320
not something that he does on an outward like an

657
00:41:47.360 --> 00:41:54.079
overly outward fashion him, you know, semi blowing up on me.

658
00:41:54.199 --> 00:41:56.519
Just registered, you know, two out of ten on my

659
00:41:56.920 --> 00:42:00.840
on My Richter scales being empathetic to his situation. But no,

660
00:42:01.119 --> 00:42:05.920
he did mention numerous occasions that he misses his parents.

661
00:42:06.079 --> 00:42:10.400
Unpeeling the layers of the onion while you're in jail

662
00:42:10.800 --> 00:42:11.760
kind of leads.

663
00:42:11.519 --> 00:42:16.000
To well, if we could move on to a little

664
00:42:16.039 --> 00:42:20.599
bit more lighthearted, was that it seemed, at least from

665
00:42:21.119 --> 00:42:24.519
what I watched a trial, that he was a decent chef.

666
00:42:24.639 --> 00:42:27.920
Did he have any prison foods that he was good

667
00:42:27.960 --> 00:42:28.440
at making?

668
00:42:30.559 --> 00:42:39.599
Yeah, jail just before the unenlightened County jail commissaries mostly

669
00:42:39.639 --> 00:42:43.440
made up of rob and jodles, which is.

670
00:42:42.519 --> 00:42:48.199
The basic filler for making any Some we call them bricks,

671
00:42:48.199 --> 00:42:51.119
we call them hookups. You make some, you mix them

672
00:42:51.119 --> 00:42:53.400
with chips, and then you put some meat sticks or

673
00:42:53.440 --> 00:42:56.960
other sort of meats in there, and it becomes an

674
00:42:57.519 --> 00:43:03.800
incredibly salty and somewhat delicious, fatty eating meal for you

675
00:43:03.880 --> 00:43:09.440
and some friends. But he had a really good It

676
00:43:09.559 --> 00:43:15.760
was basically a honey mustard chicken recipe. Some of the

677
00:43:15.760 --> 00:43:22.760
inmates that opted for the kosher or halal diet would

678
00:43:22.800 --> 00:43:29.719
be given these chicken breasts instead of whatever cow hit

679
00:43:29.760 --> 00:43:32.519
spot or that we were eating that day, so that

680
00:43:32.760 --> 00:43:38.880
it was somewhat more desirable than overcooked noodles. A lot

681
00:43:38.920 --> 00:43:44.760
of the more enterprising inmates would sell it off to

682
00:43:45.559 --> 00:43:49.960
other inmates for a noodle Chandler. I believe he was

683
00:43:50.199 --> 00:43:53.480
a Yeah, he was a coacher diet. He was a

684
00:43:53.559 --> 00:43:57.559
coacher diet and a couple of other guys had the

685
00:43:57.599 --> 00:44:01.400
halal diet, so he was able to for pure a

686
00:44:01.559 --> 00:44:05.079
number of chicken breasts. But he had this thing where

687
00:44:05.079 --> 00:44:09.280
he would take mustard packets and mix some I believe

688
00:44:09.599 --> 00:44:14.519
in packets of pickle and a couple of sweet and lows,

689
00:44:15.000 --> 00:44:18.760
kind of make a sauce more like a marinate, actually

690
00:44:19.360 --> 00:44:21.440
dipping in a zip black bag kind of land sit

691
00:44:21.559 --> 00:44:24.960
for for a while, kind of a jail house. Soouv

692
00:44:26.079 --> 00:44:30.400
and it, Yeah, it ended up very very nicely and

693
00:44:31.280 --> 00:44:33.599
for Mayo and it turned it into to turn it

694
00:44:33.639 --> 00:44:37.480
into a you know, a chicken salad sandwich instead of

695
00:44:37.559 --> 00:44:40.320
you know, dicking around and playing with video games. Not

696
00:44:40.440 --> 00:44:43.800
saying that's bad, but a lot of the valentime that

697
00:44:43.840 --> 00:44:47.519
he had in probably his early twenties slump or whatever,

698
00:44:48.239 --> 00:44:52.559
that kind of sentiment trip aimlessly. He could have got

699
00:44:52.599 --> 00:44:55.119
a job back a house at a restaurant, because I

700
00:44:55.400 --> 00:44:57.400
you know, I known a lot of guys who've done that,

701
00:44:57.519 --> 00:45:00.559
and it's a really cool job. Pays ship and I

702
00:45:00.599 --> 00:45:04.599
mean always, you know, always always tip your waitresses and

703
00:45:05.119 --> 00:45:06.960
try to send a shot back to the back of

704
00:45:06.960 --> 00:45:09.079
the house. Guys that he can. Anybody who was.

705
00:45:09.119 --> 00:45:14.960
Listening, did he mention SpaceX or working for SpaceX at all?

706
00:45:16.280 --> 00:45:21.880
Yes, the SpaceX question. I recall him saying something about

707
00:45:22.280 --> 00:45:26.119
driving down there or visiting something or or maybe I'm

708
00:45:26.159 --> 00:45:29.800
just getting getting my wires crossed with something else. But yeah,

709
00:45:29.840 --> 00:45:33.519
he did express something that was involved with that, and

710
00:45:33.599 --> 00:45:37.559
I feel like that maybe he was doing that to

711
00:45:37.599 --> 00:45:39.920
try to appease his parents.

712
00:45:40.400 --> 00:45:45.039
He lost the SpaceX job because in his version, was

713
00:45:45.320 --> 00:45:50.119
a traumatic injury falling down the stairs. Was he showing

714
00:45:50.199 --> 00:45:53.920
that in prison? Like, do you remember anything about his fall?

715
00:45:54.840 --> 00:45:59.639
He had talked about falling down the stairs and hurting

716
00:45:59.760 --> 00:46:05.000
his back his neck or something and having a cervical column.

717
00:46:05.280 --> 00:46:07.519
Is that what they call neck breaks, you know whatever,

718
00:46:08.119 --> 00:46:12.320
for a for a while and in the months leading

719
00:46:12.400 --> 00:46:17.480
up to that, And so that's that's how he, you know,

720
00:46:17.559 --> 00:46:20.760
had mentioned that to me. I'm just the messager here.

721
00:46:20.920 --> 00:46:23.440
I'm giving you. I'm giving you what was said to me,

722
00:46:24.000 --> 00:46:26.199
like I'm not, you know, I can't call him a

723
00:46:26.280 --> 00:46:28.639
liar because I you know, I didn't see any of

724
00:46:28.639 --> 00:46:32.239
this should happened, and I'm more invested in just kind

725
00:46:32.239 --> 00:46:35.400
of the day to day interactions with the guy.

726
00:46:35.440 --> 00:46:40.320
Did he on that same line, did he ever talk

727
00:46:40.400 --> 00:46:43.920
about or wear a colonostamine bag or talk about having

728
00:46:43.920 --> 00:46:46.239
to that that was down the road for him.

729
00:46:47.760 --> 00:46:55.239
Uh no, No, I can't give me more context.

730
00:46:54.840 --> 00:46:58.159
To the Yeah, yeah, that's what I'm trying to think.

731
00:46:58.199 --> 00:47:00.719
The first time it was brought up, I think it

732
00:47:00.800 --> 00:47:05.079
was in his police interview. He talked about the fall.

733
00:47:05.840 --> 00:47:10.480
So when he fell down the stairs, he hit his head,

734
00:47:10.559 --> 00:47:12.719
which was a concussion, but he also hit part of

735
00:47:12.760 --> 00:47:16.800
his spine where it was going to cause eventual total

736
00:47:16.920 --> 00:47:22.320
loss of his legs, colnostomy bag. They were also going

737
00:47:22.360 --> 00:47:24.039
to have to draw a hole in his skull to

738
00:47:24.159 --> 00:47:29.519
like leave the pressure that the blood do you remember

739
00:47:29.559 --> 00:47:31.320
any of that? Did he ever have to get No?

740
00:47:32.039 --> 00:47:37.079
No, no, we never talked about any of that. I

741
00:47:38.719 --> 00:47:42.199
know a few times I've said, yeah, you do have

742
00:47:42.280 --> 00:47:48.239
the right to remain silent, you know. Yeah, so anyone

743
00:47:48.280 --> 00:47:51.000
who's listening out there, listener, lamb, you do have a

744
00:47:51.119 --> 00:47:55.559
right to remain silent, and it's probably move you to

745
00:47:56.559 --> 00:47:57.280
exercise that.

746
00:48:00.559 --> 00:48:05.199
And then I'm sure you've probably heard of the dismemberments.

747
00:48:06.320 --> 00:48:12.039
Yeah. And then was there was there a ballistic match

748
00:48:12.239 --> 00:48:16.920
on the bullet to any specific gun or was it

749
00:48:16.920 --> 00:48:18.840
a was it a family gun or anything.

750
00:48:19.280 --> 00:48:23.519
Yeah, it was an s KS style rifle that his

751
00:48:23.679 --> 00:48:31.199
friend had given to him that summer. Uh so Tarkov together.

752
00:48:31.400 --> 00:48:33.280
I've never played that, but I guess it's.

753
00:48:33.159 --> 00:48:35.119
Uh yeah, I don't even know what that is.

754
00:48:35.679 --> 00:48:38.000
It's like an online game, kind of like if you

755
00:48:38.079 --> 00:48:41.440
play online Call of Duty, I guess, and I'm massive

756
00:48:41.559 --> 00:48:45.960
multi yeah, and you just kind of meet up and

757
00:48:46.079 --> 00:48:47.920
you go into the game. But that was one of

758
00:48:48.000 --> 00:48:51.239
Chandler's favorite guns. So his friend was like, Hey, his

759
00:48:51.239 --> 00:48:54.239
friend was a gun nut, and you know, they would

760
00:48:54.239 --> 00:48:57.079
play online and whatever, and his friend kind of surprised

761
00:48:57.119 --> 00:49:00.280
him one day showed up. I mean, they planned this trip.

762
00:49:00.320 --> 00:49:01.920
He was going to come see him, but it was like, hey,

763
00:49:01.960 --> 00:49:04.360
i'll give you this gun. He didn't really tell his

764
00:49:04.480 --> 00:49:07.320
parents because they were not He didn't know if they

765
00:49:07.320 --> 00:49:09.679
would disapprove, but he didn't know if they would approve.

766
00:49:10.679 --> 00:49:14.280
So there were five bullets missing. His friend gave him, like,

767
00:49:15.280 --> 00:49:18.239
you know, five hundred rounds of ammunition and there were

768
00:49:18.320 --> 00:49:21.920
five There was five bullets missing from one clip and

769
00:49:21.960 --> 00:49:22.480
they mastered.

770
00:49:22.719 --> 00:49:27.679
Yea. I vaguely remember hearing something. Yeah.

771
00:49:28.159 --> 00:49:32.199
I think that's just what you know, you talked about

772
00:49:32.280 --> 00:49:36.119
him being so normal, is that's what gets people so

773
00:49:36.320 --> 00:49:40.800
interested in this case because it wasn't just I think

774
00:49:40.920 --> 00:49:44.679
we all could understand, like even though it's a horrible

775
00:49:44.719 --> 00:49:48.159
thing like losing temper and like hurting someone you love,

776
00:49:49.000 --> 00:49:53.880
but the dismemberment and the so I don't know if

777
00:49:53.920 --> 00:49:57.519
you know this detail, but the skulls and the knees

778
00:49:57.559 --> 00:49:59.239
were burnt in the fireplace.

779
00:50:02.039 --> 00:50:04.920
Yeah there, Yeah, that was that was pretty common knowledge

780
00:50:05.039 --> 00:50:07.840
around the pot. Uh.

781
00:50:08.079 --> 00:50:11.559
Yeah, no, it's just so extreme. I think that's it.

782
00:50:11.559 --> 00:50:13.960
And I'm not asking you to comment, but just maybe

783
00:50:14.320 --> 00:50:18.599
I don't know any kind of reaction or your thoughts.

784
00:50:19.159 --> 00:50:25.159
Uh, the way it was so. I The way I

785
00:50:25.199 --> 00:50:32.159
had heard it was he said that some neighbor had

786
00:50:33.840 --> 00:50:37.480
I don't know whether it was, you know, being interviewed

787
00:50:37.480 --> 00:50:42.280
by the cops post all this, or if he called

788
00:50:42.280 --> 00:50:45.880
into the cops, but but on the night of, but

789
00:50:46.159 --> 00:50:49.519
it was it sounds like somebody's grilling at three a m.

790
00:50:50.119 --> 00:50:54.239
Or something like that, and you know, yeah, I mean, yeah,

791
00:50:55.159 --> 00:50:58.679
Devil's advocates. I mean, you know, you know, this is Wisconsin.

792
00:50:58.800 --> 00:51:02.519
We we strangers. We do stranger things with grilled.

793
00:51:05.320 --> 00:51:06.159
Everybody's grilling.

794
00:51:06.199 --> 00:51:08.280
Oh yeah, Well, I mean if it was New Year's Day,

795
00:51:08.360 --> 00:51:10.280
you would be out and four feet of snow grill.

796
00:51:10.519 --> 00:51:13.719
That's that's That's just the Wisconsin thing. So, I mean,

797
00:51:14.000 --> 00:51:17.599
you know, that didn't really strike me all that odd,

798
00:51:18.559 --> 00:51:21.559
you know, but you know, honestly.

799
00:51:21.639 --> 00:51:25.679
Did you see the were found in the soot trap

800
00:51:25.760 --> 00:51:26.639
in the fireplace.

801
00:51:27.679 --> 00:51:33.679
I heard it was bone fragments, remember it was from Yeah,

802
00:51:33.760 --> 00:51:36.400
I remember it was from Chandler or if it was

803
00:51:36.440 --> 00:51:42.000
through the news. I also had heard, and this maybe incorrect,

804
00:51:42.159 --> 00:51:46.559
that they couldn't extract DNA evidence, but if it's if

805
00:51:46.599 --> 00:51:49.639
it was dental, then I'm assuming yeah, they could probably

806
00:51:49.679 --> 00:51:51.039
figure that out pretty quickly.

807
00:51:51.679 --> 00:51:54.960
Yeah, the tease, we're a dead ringer, and they did

808
00:51:55.000 --> 00:51:59.599
find something some like pieces of bone that they were

809
00:51:59.639 --> 00:52:01.079
able to like reconstruct.

810
00:52:02.840 --> 00:52:06.039
Yeah yeah, yeah, but yeah.

811
00:52:05.880 --> 00:52:08.239
I mean it's kind of like you said, where it's

812
00:52:10.039 --> 00:52:18.760
you know, you kind of compartmentalize certain things to get

813
00:52:18.760 --> 00:52:23.559
through a situation. Like it's not really me passing any

814
00:52:23.639 --> 00:52:26.760
judgment on you or him, or it's just kind of

815
00:52:26.800 --> 00:52:33.920
like because I've even had about like the dismemberment because

816
00:52:35.119 --> 00:52:36.840
I don't know if this is another thing. I'm not

817
00:52:36.880 --> 00:52:39.559
sure if you heard he didn't you or not he

818
00:52:39.639 --> 00:52:45.159
but it wasn't used like he's or somebody saw through

819
00:52:45.239 --> 00:52:51.800
both femurs with like scissors and a rusty handsaw and

820
00:52:53.079 --> 00:52:54.920
you know they last.

821
00:52:55.039 --> 00:53:01.639
But I mean, yeah, I mean like it it's just

822
00:53:01.679 --> 00:53:04.199
like it just seems like an amateur job. You know,

823
00:53:04.880 --> 00:53:09.599
I get it, and you know it's it's you know,

824
00:53:10.679 --> 00:53:17.199
and putting myself in the place of again, whoever did it? Uh,

825
00:53:17.360 --> 00:53:22.199
you know you're crime of passion, that's the desperation move.

826
00:53:23.079 --> 00:53:26.599
You know, whatever the circumstances that that caused it to happen.

827
00:53:27.239 --> 00:53:30.159
You know, you're obviously not one of her percent prepared

828
00:53:30.199 --> 00:53:32.800
to dismember a body, You're not, you know, I come,

829
00:53:33.079 --> 00:53:35.480
I come to the land of Damas, so you know,

830
00:53:35.559 --> 00:53:38.320
I get it, and I know, you know, you know

831
00:53:38.360 --> 00:53:40.880
there there's a bit of premeditation when it comes to

832
00:53:40.960 --> 00:53:47.800
something involving dissection, you know, or anything like that. And yeah,

833
00:53:47.800 --> 00:53:52.039
it's disposal of a body. And I one thing that

834
00:53:52.079 --> 00:53:54.679
we didn't talk about, I guess I could share this is,

835
00:53:54.880 --> 00:53:57.800
you know, in one of our more Gallos humor moments,

836
00:53:58.239 --> 00:54:02.440
we were talking about the fact that it was burning,

837
00:54:03.239 --> 00:54:06.320
burning on a torso and I feel so strangely laying

838
00:54:06.400 --> 00:54:08.719
this because I'm talking about a human life that is

839
00:54:08.800 --> 00:54:12.559
lost and it's but at the time, it's like it's

840
00:54:12.639 --> 00:54:18.039
compartment life. We're like, Chandler, you're not fucking stupid enough

841
00:54:18.440 --> 00:54:21.239
to know that you can't just burn a fucking human

842
00:54:21.320 --> 00:54:24.920
body in the fireplace, right And He's like, I know,

843
00:54:25.079 --> 00:54:27.760
I am not that I'm too smart for that, and

844
00:54:27.800 --> 00:54:31.559
we kind of laughed about that, but that was just

845
00:54:31.639 --> 00:54:36.280
a conversation we had had. But you know, like jet

846
00:54:36.360 --> 00:54:39.960
fuel can't milk steel beams type type fucking beam shit.

847
00:54:39.880 --> 00:54:43.760
Right there, right right. Well, I think what surprised me

848
00:54:43.920 --> 00:54:47.679
too was how much actually was able to be burned.

849
00:54:47.880 --> 00:54:52.239
I mean there wasn't uh, the entire body was not

850
00:54:52.360 --> 00:54:56.159
attempted to be burned, but it was the heads and

851
00:54:56.199 --> 00:55:01.360
the knees, and then the torsos were cut up and

852
00:55:01.400 --> 00:55:06.519
then one was dropped at at uh. And this is

853
00:55:06.639 --> 00:55:09.239
kind of interesting. It wasn't one hundred percent match. But

854
00:55:09.280 --> 00:55:13.360
do you know about the pool at Cres's farm, that

855
00:55:13.440 --> 00:55:17.480
whole interaction, it's a little more.

856
00:55:19.039 --> 00:55:23.320
It was it was a pool like a like a

857
00:55:23.360 --> 00:55:26.239
pond or was it like a like a like a

858
00:55:26.280 --> 00:55:27.639
swimming pool, swimming pool?

859
00:55:27.679 --> 00:55:29.320
Well, here, I'll tell I'll tell you the story and

860
00:55:29.360 --> 00:55:30.920
then i'll get it kind of get your take on it.

861
00:55:33.000 --> 00:55:39.360
So you know, Kat his girlfriend. Yeah, mom was either

862
00:55:39.440 --> 00:55:43.000
bisexual or lesbian, but she was in a lesbian relationship

863
00:55:43.039 --> 00:55:48.000
with a woman named Cress Crescent or but Chico by Cress.

864
00:55:48.559 --> 00:55:50.039
And yes I remember that.

865
00:55:50.280 --> 00:55:53.840
Yes, yes, she had a farm. And they all went

866
00:55:53.840 --> 00:55:58.280
out there on fourth of July and celebrated out to barbecue,

867
00:55:58.400 --> 00:56:01.639
and then Chandler came back the next day without cats

868
00:56:01.840 --> 00:56:04.599
and asked if he could use their pool to just

869
00:56:04.679 --> 00:56:10.039
kind of swim around and stretch his neck out and everything,

870
00:56:10.119 --> 00:56:12.719
and they said, yeah, sure, you know, go ahead. So

871
00:56:12.760 --> 00:56:16.039
he went up there, and they go up to use

872
00:56:16.079 --> 00:56:19.079
the pool because it's hot outs July and they wanted

873
00:56:19.079 --> 00:56:22.239
to use the pool, and they can't find Chandler anywhere.

874
00:56:22.280 --> 00:56:24.480
They see his car in the back of it's opened

875
00:56:24.519 --> 00:56:28.039
and it's like parked out near the woods, and they're like,

876
00:56:28.119 --> 00:56:30.000
the pool still has its cover on it. So he

877
00:56:30.039 --> 00:56:34.800
didn't get in the pool. And this is July fifth,

878
00:56:34.960 --> 00:56:38.920
so it's four days after his parents went missing. They

879
00:56:38.920 --> 00:56:44.800
actually hadn't beneficially reported missing. But they're like, well, we're

880
00:56:44.800 --> 00:56:46.920
just going to get in the pool. You know, screw Chandler.

881
00:56:46.960 --> 00:56:49.920
We're hot. He'll come back if he's out walking. They

882
00:56:49.920 --> 00:56:52.119
thought he was probably smoking a joint, which they were

883
00:56:52.159 --> 00:56:55.239
really mad about. You know, they're like, oh yo. So

884
00:56:56.159 --> 00:56:59.679
they get in the pool. Chandler comes out of the woods.

885
00:57:00.559 --> 00:57:02.360
He asked if he can get in the pool, but

886
00:57:02.440 --> 00:57:05.559
he's kind of like a little bit. He looks a

887
00:57:05.599 --> 00:57:07.800
little bit off. They're not sure if he was high.

888
00:57:08.639 --> 00:57:11.920
And Cress had her top offs, her boobs are out

889
00:57:12.000 --> 00:57:15.280
and she's like, no, don't come in the pool, and

890
00:57:15.320 --> 00:57:17.480
I guess he misheard them. So he jumped in the

891
00:57:17.480 --> 00:57:19.360
pool and then.

892
00:57:19.440 --> 00:57:23.599
Oh wait, yeah, yeah, yeah, continue this yeah, this is

893
00:57:23.679 --> 00:57:24.559
ringing something to me.

894
00:57:24.679 --> 00:57:27.920
Yeah, so he washes himself off a little bit, he's

895
00:57:27.960 --> 00:57:32.199
like sweaty and grimy, and you know, and then he's like,

896
00:57:32.239 --> 00:57:36.320
I gotta run. And then like a few days later,

897
00:57:36.519 --> 00:57:40.880
Turkey Vulture started circling and that's where they found his

898
00:57:41.000 --> 00:57:45.039
dad's torso was right out by the pool, like in

899
00:57:45.079 --> 00:57:48.480
the woods. There was just a little right little path

900
00:57:48.519 --> 00:57:50.559
where his car had been pulled up, and they found

901
00:57:50.599 --> 00:57:55.239
a rusty oil tanker and they found all the saws

902
00:57:55.519 --> 00:57:59.280
that whoever had used to dismember, and then in Cres's

903
00:57:59.360 --> 00:58:01.280
shed they found the SKS rifle.

904
00:58:03.000 --> 00:58:10.960
Yeah. Yeah, I do remember hearing some of that. I

905
00:58:11.039 --> 00:58:16.000
know it was on TV or some news report that

906
00:58:16.360 --> 00:58:19.719
was mentioned. I don't recall if it was during the

907
00:58:19.840 --> 00:58:22.400
trial or if it was in the lead up to it.

908
00:58:22.440 --> 00:58:24.519
But no, that story does ring a bell to me.

909
00:58:24.760 --> 00:58:28.039
Yeah, but just not like.

910
00:58:29.719 --> 00:58:37.440
That. And that's pretty much what I remember out of that.

911
00:58:37.519 --> 00:58:41.280
There's I don't think I don't think it was anything

912
00:58:42.239 --> 00:58:54.360
really kind of we talked about. Yea, maybe there was, yeah, yeah,

913
00:58:54.519 --> 00:58:58.280
nothing nothing really rings the bell of anything that was,

914
00:58:58.920 --> 00:59:01.800
you know, as far as a reaction to that news

915
00:59:01.840 --> 00:59:05.280
coming out, I do remember I do remember that news

916
00:59:05.320 --> 00:59:09.880
breaking the timeline of which I don't remember exactly, but

917
00:59:09.960 --> 00:59:11.280
I do remember hearing that story.

918
00:59:11.360 --> 00:59:16.960
Yeah, like in a hypothetical say it wasn't Chandler, Because

919
00:59:16.960 --> 00:59:18.679
this is what I try to do, and a lot

920
00:59:18.719 --> 00:59:22.719
of true crime is like approach something and to rule

921
00:59:22.760 --> 00:59:26.960
out someone, to kind of come up with alternate theory,

922
00:59:27.039 --> 00:59:33.320
like wondering because I just don't think cress or like

923
00:59:33.440 --> 00:59:38.760
maybe someone framing him kind of as a possibility if

924
00:59:38.800 --> 00:59:42.119
you wanted to frame someone, that would be exactly how

925
00:59:42.159 --> 00:59:45.199
you would where you would put stuff right.

926
00:59:45.760 --> 00:59:48.840
Like oh yeah, yeah, I mean it's it's a little

927
00:59:48.920 --> 00:59:49.960
on the nose.

928
00:59:49.880 --> 00:59:54.800
Don't you think, Yeah, exactly? Did he ever bring up

929
00:59:54.800 --> 00:59:57.159
any theory? I know you can't get too specific, but

930
00:59:57.199 --> 01:00:00.440
did he ever anybody who wanted to frame aim him

931
01:00:00.519 --> 01:00:02.320
or how to grudge against him or anything?

932
01:00:08.840 --> 01:00:11.480
Yeah? But I don't feel like I can get into

933
01:00:11.519 --> 01:00:16.079
this because I feel, I feel, honestly, I feel if

934
01:00:16.079 --> 01:00:20.199
I bring you know, if I if I talk about it,

935
01:00:20.199 --> 01:00:23.000
it might be grounds for a lawsuit because it's it

936
01:00:24.119 --> 01:00:26.320
just strikes me as a big defamatory and I don't

937
01:00:26.400 --> 01:00:29.840
like to do same, especially people I don't even know.

938
01:00:30.599 --> 01:00:33.480
I've never mentioned you before in my life and just

939
01:00:33.480 --> 01:00:37.199
just relaying my theories of what he thinks and you know,

940
01:00:37.400 --> 01:00:41.719
the you know, the circumstances around it. Yeah, I'm just

941
01:00:41.800 --> 01:00:43.000
not uncomfortable doing that.

942
01:00:43.320 --> 01:00:46.960
No, that makes sense. I would actually, yeah, I would

943
01:00:47.079 --> 01:00:50.880
encourage you not to. So that's that's a good instinct.

944
01:00:50.880 --> 01:00:53.239
I hate to disappoint of view the listeners.

945
01:00:53.280 --> 01:00:56.760
But yeah, well even if you probably would edit it

946
01:00:56.800 --> 01:01:00.960
out because like I don't want to, Yeah, that's not Yeah,

947
01:01:01.000 --> 01:01:04.239
but there were at least maybe thoughts of it could

948
01:01:04.280 --> 01:01:08.119
have been something like that. I guess is at least

949
01:01:08.119 --> 01:01:08.960
a possibility.

950
01:01:09.800 --> 01:01:12.880
Yeah, I mean, I didn't know the family dynamic. I

951
01:01:12.920 --> 01:01:16.039
didn't know. I don't know. Apparently they were an upper

952
01:01:16.119 --> 01:01:21.719
middle pass family. I'm sure in families like that, there's

953
01:01:22.079 --> 01:01:25.719
I don't you know. From watching TV, I know inheritance

954
01:01:25.920 --> 01:01:28.760
is a big motivator for a lot of things. I

955
01:01:28.800 --> 01:01:32.159
don't know how that's handled.

956
01:01:33.199 --> 01:01:37.199
Many of the questions that I asked Wallace were scripted,

957
01:01:37.400 --> 01:01:39.480
but there were quite a few that I just threw

958
01:01:39.519 --> 01:01:42.079
out there off the cough that came into my head,

959
01:01:42.599 --> 01:01:45.920
and this was one of those. Looking back, I guess

960
01:01:46.039 --> 01:01:50.199
I wanted to try to gauge Wallace's level of commitment

961
01:01:50.280 --> 01:01:53.840
to the friendship with Chandler. You might say this question

962
01:01:54.360 --> 01:01:57.679
was somewhat of a test for Wallace. In my head,

963
01:01:58.639 --> 01:02:02.760
how would you assess the relationship the friendship with Chandler

964
01:02:02.840 --> 01:02:06.199
if hypothetically he was to get out of jail. Would

965
01:02:06.239 --> 01:02:09.039
you like watch the trial and be like, what was

966
01:02:09.119 --> 01:02:11.559
this guy? Like did he get out? Or would you

967
01:02:11.639 --> 01:02:14.400
just kind of continue kind of your current thoughts on

968
01:02:14.480 --> 01:02:16.960
him or just curious?

969
01:02:18.119 --> 01:02:23.079
Ah, yeah, yeah, I don't. I don't think that would

970
01:02:23.079 --> 01:02:28.119
be something that would that would I don't know, maybe well,

971
01:02:28.239 --> 01:02:33.639
I know that together, like like I mentioned that we'd

972
01:02:33.639 --> 01:02:35.880
like to doodle and draw together, Like we used to

973
01:02:35.960 --> 01:02:39.280
draw comics theirs together, and they were really fucking hilarious

974
01:02:40.320 --> 01:02:42.960
if I say so smart so say so myself. But uh,

975
01:02:44.760 --> 01:02:49.480
one come a couple of times of reoccurring kind of

976
01:02:49.639 --> 01:02:57.159
trope in these in these comic strips were alternate reality

977
01:02:57.199 --> 01:03:02.159
buttons because me and him out doing normal guy stuff,

978
01:03:02.800 --> 01:03:05.800
you know, out on the streets, and I tried I

979
01:03:05.880 --> 01:03:09.880
kind of did it as you know, something something if

980
01:03:10.559 --> 01:03:13.280
it's if circumstances were different, you know, I could see

981
01:03:13.280 --> 01:03:16.360
myself being a being a buddy with you, and like

982
01:03:17.719 --> 01:03:20.760
one thing was like, hey, get on your get on

983
01:03:20.840 --> 01:03:24.000
your Sunday best buddy. We are going out to eat

984
01:03:24.039 --> 01:03:28.039
with the ladies tonight. And I drew a little picture

985
01:03:28.039 --> 01:03:32.480
of him and picture meme will word bubbles and he's like, oh,

986
01:03:32.559 --> 01:03:35.960
that's awesome. What where are we going? And then on

987
01:03:36.000 --> 01:03:38.440
the final panel it was like it was a it

988
01:03:38.519 --> 01:03:42.159
was a Robin noodle house, and it was really excited

989
01:03:42.239 --> 01:03:46.800
because uh oh, I haven't had Robin in in so

990
01:03:46.960 --> 01:03:49.639
many years. And the joke is because I mean, you know,

991
01:03:50.000 --> 01:03:53.079
Robin is so ubiquitous in jail. You know, you get

992
01:03:53.119 --> 01:03:57.280
out of jail, you never want to see Robin, right.

993
01:03:58.119 --> 01:04:01.559
It's ax pretty funny. Did he mention I know you

994
01:04:01.599 --> 01:04:03.760
said you hadn't heard of Tarkov, but did he mention

995
01:04:03.920 --> 01:04:05.519
gaming at all in jail?

996
01:04:06.679 --> 01:04:11.800
A little bit? I'm not a gamer myself. I've mentioned

997
01:04:11.840 --> 01:04:16.199
on that Reddit stub thread I don't know five five

998
01:04:16.239 --> 01:04:20.360
plus XP from HPV, So I really am not a

999
01:04:21.000 --> 01:04:24.360
not a gamer. A couple of my exes were, yeah,

1000
01:04:24.519 --> 01:04:26.719
I get it, just not my thing. There were a

1001
01:04:26.800 --> 01:04:30.079
couple of guys in our click that were gamer guys,

1002
01:04:30.599 --> 01:04:36.280
and I'm sure Chandler talked games with them, and like,

1003
01:04:36.280 --> 01:04:39.000
like when I would go off on tangents about you know,

1004
01:04:39.320 --> 01:04:41.639
it's like when you're when you're talking about what you

1005
01:04:41.719 --> 01:04:44.719
do professionally, and then you kind of start using jargon

1006
01:04:45.280 --> 01:04:49.360
from your your technical field. People get lost really easy

1007
01:04:49.679 --> 01:04:52.760
and it's kind of, oh, you're just speaking Greek to me.

1008
01:04:53.639 --> 01:04:56.559
And so it's not that I would tune him out,

1009
01:04:56.679 --> 01:05:00.280
but I was tuning him out because I didn't to.

1010
01:05:00.280 --> 01:05:03.239
Me, did he was he reading a lot? One of

1011
01:05:03.280 --> 01:05:05.519
the things he said was like he read twenty books

1012
01:05:05.599 --> 01:05:07.960
or something. Did you see him reading? I went back

1013
01:05:08.000 --> 01:05:11.039
and searched through the phone calls to see if I

1014
01:05:11.039 --> 01:05:15.360
could find the exact times that Chandler mentioned reading, and

1015
01:05:15.480 --> 01:05:16.280
I found a couple.

1016
01:05:16.920 --> 01:05:18.440
I'm sure you read a lot of books on learned

1017
01:05:18.480 --> 01:05:21.840
some fancy words.

1018
01:05:22.639 --> 01:05:26.679
I have read a lot, yeah, and wrote it a lot.

1019
01:05:27.920 --> 01:05:32.360
I've read I don't know, maybe twenty five books so far.

1020
01:05:36.280 --> 01:05:40.800
At the beginning, No, she did he wasn't that big

1021
01:05:40.840 --> 01:05:47.920
of a reader. I was, And yeah, I enjoyed a

1022
01:05:47.920 --> 01:05:49.920
lot of classics and stuff. So I tried to like

1023
01:05:50.559 --> 01:05:53.920
kick him up to him, like make sure Jorian Gray

1024
01:05:54.199 --> 01:05:56.800
or like sure lack Holmes, or like some of the

1025
01:05:56.840 --> 01:06:01.679
classic things, and you know, I couldn't you know, Gasby

1026
01:06:02.039 --> 01:06:04.679
or something like that. I always enjoyed, like you know

1027
01:06:04.719 --> 01:06:07.320
how I kind of painted a picture with the words,

1028
01:06:07.360 --> 01:06:09.480
and this is how I kind of explained it to him,

1029
01:06:09.480 --> 01:06:12.480
that it's kind of like a picture made up words.

1030
01:06:13.119 --> 01:06:17.639
But you know what, whether that took or not, I

1031
01:06:17.679 --> 01:06:20.840
don't know his current tastes in books. At Dane County,

1032
01:06:20.880 --> 01:06:24.920
we had personal radios that we I think I think

1033
01:06:24.960 --> 01:06:28.039
we all bought our second hand from other other guys.

1034
01:06:28.079 --> 01:06:32.000
We trade some stuff and whatnot. So we did have

1035
01:06:32.199 --> 01:06:35.119
radios and that was our number one form of escape

1036
01:06:36.280 --> 01:06:46.119
or listening a little, yeah, a little personal handheld radios

1037
01:06:46.159 --> 01:06:51.079
with your ear buds on him. So and actually Madison

1038
01:06:51.119 --> 01:06:53.960
has a pretty decent selection of independent radio stations with

1039
01:06:54.199 --> 01:06:57.079
that I really enjoyed listening to that night. So that

1040
01:06:57.199 --> 01:07:01.559
was pretty cool. So I would get the He's Hot

1041
01:07:01.599 --> 01:07:06.800
off the presses, indie alternative music that you know, that's

1042
01:07:06.840 --> 01:07:10.760
the type of music I love, post punk and alternative.

1043
01:07:11.119 --> 01:07:13.679
So I would play these songs for him the next day,

1044
01:07:14.280 --> 01:07:19.480
you know, like Japanese breakfasts be Sweet, or like all

1045
01:07:19.559 --> 01:07:21.519
these other tunes that I had heard the night before

1046
01:07:21.559 --> 01:07:25.039
in this indie radio station. So I would try to

1047
01:07:25.079 --> 01:07:28.599
hit him to some better tunes, because yeah, he would

1048
01:07:28.639 --> 01:07:32.559
listen to complete white Bread Country. It's like top forty

1049
01:07:33.199 --> 01:07:37.360
fucking country, and I mean there's nothing wrong with that,

1050
01:07:37.440 --> 01:07:40.119
I guess. But he struck me as a guy that

1051
01:07:40.239 --> 01:07:45.079
had a lot of potential in esoteric field of art. Yes,

1052
01:07:46.159 --> 01:07:50.199
I come from an art background, and so esoteric forms

1053
01:07:50.199 --> 01:07:53.280
of art and music are things I grab taped towards

1054
01:07:53.800 --> 01:07:58.719
and since we he just struck me as I would

1055
01:07:58.840 --> 01:08:02.360
say sheltered, but just not the type of guy that

1056
01:08:04.320 --> 01:08:08.920
had the wherewithal our tools somewhere along the way, like

1057
01:08:09.519 --> 01:08:11.840
you know, maybe when he was like twelve to kind

1058
01:08:11.840 --> 01:08:16.439
of branch out and say, hey, this music speaks to me,

1059
01:08:17.199 --> 01:08:22.720
right maybe, So that's what I try to impart out him.

1060
01:08:23.520 --> 01:08:28.359
The second half of today's interview is really a reunion story.

1061
01:08:28.640 --> 01:08:32.000
We'll be right back after a quick break. If you

1062
01:08:32.039 --> 01:08:34.520
want to support the show, it takes less than one

1063
01:08:34.600 --> 01:08:38.199
minute to sign up for Patreon and it costs less

1064
01:08:38.239 --> 01:08:43.119
than one coffee a month. Patreon dot com slash tapes

1065
01:08:43.359 --> 01:08:51.119
from the Dark Side.

1066
01:08:51.840 --> 01:08:54.920
But as going back to the books at Dodged, they

1067
01:08:54.920 --> 01:08:58.560
have a much better library I ended up having to

1068
01:08:58.600 --> 01:09:03.600
do three months there at the tail end of of everything,

1069
01:09:03.760 --> 01:09:06.960
after I signed a bullshit clea ad barn and whatever.

1070
01:09:07.760 --> 01:09:11.159
Plus they could treat my hepatitis C there from my

1071
01:09:11.239 --> 01:09:14.840
past life as a heroin enthusiast that they won't do

1072
01:09:15.000 --> 01:09:17.239
at County, and I knew my liver was in pretty

1073
01:09:17.680 --> 01:09:20.319
pretty bad disrepair. To be a lot cheaper, I just

1074
01:09:20.359 --> 01:09:23.079
got to fucking state to pay for it. So so

1075
01:09:23.199 --> 01:09:26.079
in the three months that I was there, I was

1076
01:09:26.119 --> 01:09:28.720
able to be reunited with him. And I had to

1077
01:09:28.760 --> 01:09:33.720
go to ancient HSU Health Services unit and have a

1078
01:09:33.760 --> 01:09:37.079
physical done for me. And every time, you know, every

1079
01:09:37.079 --> 01:09:39.800
time in the hall, I'd walked past the kitchen, and

1080
01:09:39.960 --> 01:09:41.720
last I had heard from him, he was working in

1081
01:09:41.720 --> 01:09:46.159
the kitchen. So when I sat down in Hsu, I'm

1082
01:09:46.199 --> 01:09:49.239
sitting there and I'm, you know, I'm just shaved my

1083
01:09:49.319 --> 01:09:52.760
head bald. I look like a fucking peel boiled potato.

1084
01:09:53.439 --> 01:09:56.199
And I'm just sitting there and I'm trying to keep

1085
01:09:56.199 --> 01:09:58.359
my head down but trying to keep my head on

1086
01:09:58.520 --> 01:10:01.560
swivel a little bit. And there's this fucking kind of

1087
01:10:02.039 --> 01:10:05.359
kind of nerdy looking kid looking at me. He's got

1088
01:10:05.399 --> 01:10:10.239
like he's got those dammer aviators on, and he's just

1089
01:10:10.640 --> 01:10:14.319
like looking at me. He's like hey, and he says

1090
01:10:14.359 --> 01:10:19.000
my name and Hey, it's me, and I'm like looking

1091
01:10:19.000 --> 01:10:20.720
at him, I'm like, who the fuck are Who the

1092
01:10:20.760 --> 01:10:24.880
fuck is this? Yeah? And and then I go back

1093
01:10:25.840 --> 01:10:27.800
because because I'm I can't talk to him out in

1094
01:10:27.800 --> 01:10:32.359
the open, he'll be conduct report. So then the nerds

1095
01:10:32.399 --> 01:10:36.439
calls me back and as I'm passing through the doorway,

1096
01:10:36.920 --> 01:10:39.479
I look back at him and then he smiles at me,

1097
01:10:40.199 --> 01:10:43.680
and I'm like, holy fuck, that's Chandler. It's on my

1098
01:10:43.800 --> 01:10:47.880
way out. I'm like, how are you? And I'm gotta

1099
01:10:47.920 --> 01:10:52.039
whisper everything, and you know. So the following week, I

1100
01:10:52.119 --> 01:10:56.520
was set up to start taking my hepatitis medication and

1101
01:10:56.600 --> 01:11:00.319
I had to go every morning down to h You

1102
01:11:00.760 --> 01:11:04.840
from the block or the barracks that I was eventually

1103
01:11:05.119 --> 01:11:10.000
situated in. And he had just gotten a job as

1104
01:11:10.039 --> 01:11:14.760
a clerk in Hsu. So every morning around eight o'clock,

1105
01:11:15.039 --> 01:11:17.079
I would be called, my past would be called to

1106
01:11:17.079 --> 01:11:20.119
go down there. I would travel down there and I

1107
01:11:20.159 --> 01:11:23.039
would see him. I'd be waiting a long line, a

1108
01:11:23.039 --> 01:11:26.920
long methodon esque line of people waiting to get whatever

1109
01:11:27.000 --> 01:11:30.840
controlled medication or or whatnot that they would have to

1110
01:11:30.880 --> 01:11:35.159
go specifically to the HSU or instead of just keeping

1111
01:11:35.159 --> 01:11:40.000
on person or being administered by the death or the

1112
01:11:40.239 --> 01:11:44.239
correction officer on the unit. So I would get to

1113
01:11:44.279 --> 01:11:46.199
talk to him once in a while, and you know

1114
01:11:46.279 --> 01:11:48.720
a lot of times it was we just kind of

1115
01:11:49.039 --> 01:11:51.840
just look at each other and kind of smile. And

1116
01:11:52.680 --> 01:11:55.600
it sounds, you know, it sounds, it sounds a little fruite,

1117
01:11:55.840 --> 01:11:58.680
but honestly it was. It was a really kind of

1118
01:11:58.800 --> 01:12:04.439
nice moment to just see someone that you don't and

1119
01:12:04.479 --> 01:12:08.800
that you consider a friend. And then he started engineering

1120
01:12:08.880 --> 01:12:11.279
his breakfast break where he would be able to go

1121
01:12:11.359 --> 01:12:15.119
back to his unit and have breakfast to coincide with

1122
01:12:15.199 --> 01:12:19.840
me walking back to my unit, so we would be

1123
01:12:19.840 --> 01:12:22.000
able to chat a little bit in the hallway. We'd

1124
01:12:22.000 --> 01:12:24.720
have to walk single file line and you know, within

1125
01:12:24.800 --> 01:12:29.680
the little shoulder alley, red tape gun line in the

1126
01:12:29.920 --> 01:12:32.239
in the in the hallway, and so we'd be able

1127
01:12:32.279 --> 01:12:35.159
to shoot the ship a little bit and talk a

1128
01:12:35.199 --> 01:12:37.800
little bit of stuff. Hey, when you get now this,

1129
01:12:37.960 --> 01:12:40.520
that and the other thing went to your last dose. Hey,

1130
01:12:40.600 --> 01:12:44.079
I sent to you another another letter and you should

1131
01:12:44.079 --> 01:12:46.119
be getting in the mail that we were trying to

1132
01:12:46.199 --> 01:12:49.359
work a way of getting streamlining it by getting our

1133
01:12:50.239 --> 01:12:53.960
letters said to each other through institutional mail since he

1134
01:12:54.000 --> 01:12:57.319
worked at HSU. But nothing ever came of that. Maybe

1135
01:12:57.319 --> 01:12:59.760
I shouldn't even said anything about that. I don't want

1136
01:12:59.800 --> 01:13:02.000
to was his job, as anybody he was about that.

1137
01:13:02.159 --> 01:13:06.199
But but yeah, yeah, it was always it was always

1138
01:13:06.279 --> 01:13:09.680
nice to see him. And then one day the eight

1139
01:13:09.720 --> 01:13:13.159
weeks or whatever, it was up for my medication, so

1140
01:13:13.279 --> 01:13:16.000
I never saw him. That was probably the last time

1141
01:13:16.039 --> 01:13:25.680
I saw him. And I was my release date early

1142
01:13:25.960 --> 01:13:32.600
April of this year, early April, so my release date

1143
01:13:32.760 --> 01:13:38.439
was late April, and I remember a couple of days

1144
01:13:38.439 --> 01:13:41.680
before I think about a day or two before I

1145
01:13:41.720 --> 01:13:45.640
got out, I wrote a letter to him, and I

1146
01:13:46.479 --> 01:13:49.520
I started out with the cheesy you know, dear John

1147
01:13:49.680 --> 01:13:53.359
Trope of like dear Chanler, by the time you read this,

1148
01:13:53.399 --> 01:13:56.960
I would be gone. And you know that was I'm

1149
01:13:56.960 --> 01:13:58.800
sure he got the humor in it, but I did

1150
01:13:59.399 --> 01:14:02.239
put I did put in there that I you know,

1151
01:14:02.319 --> 01:14:07.920
I intend to fully continue correspondence with you. I'm here

1152
01:14:07.960 --> 01:14:13.840
for you, but you know I got your back. Yeah,

1153
01:14:14.199 --> 01:14:18.560
A big thing that affects you while you're incarcerated is abandonment,

1154
01:14:18.840 --> 01:14:23.079
and I do have abandonment issues myself. And you know,

1155
01:14:23.119 --> 01:14:29.760
I went through a breakup while incarcerated. Ducks, and people

1156
01:14:29.840 --> 01:14:32.600
lose loved ones while they're incarcerated, not able to go

1157
01:14:32.640 --> 01:14:37.960
their go their funerals. It's hard. It's it's hard. And

1158
01:14:38.039 --> 01:14:41.520
so I mean, I'm obviously he doesn't have many people

1159
01:14:42.039 --> 01:14:45.239
standing bile. I know, I know he had talked to

1160
01:14:45.359 --> 01:14:48.119
his grandmother a couple of times. That was about the

1161
01:14:48.159 --> 01:14:52.159
extent of any family interactions that I had ever heard about.

1162
01:14:53.199 --> 01:14:56.640
So I mean, I.

1163
01:14:55.279 --> 01:14:58.199
Did his talks with his grandma.

1164
01:14:59.279 --> 01:15:02.039
No, I just the fact that, yeah, I talked to

1165
01:15:02.079 --> 01:15:05.319
my grandma today and I said, oh cool, how'd that go?

1166
01:15:05.720 --> 01:15:08.800
And He's like, yeah, good, it was really good, you know,

1167
01:15:09.760 --> 01:15:13.279
just happy to hear for me. And I think maybe

1168
01:15:13.319 --> 01:15:15.239
she threw a couple of bucks on his books. I

1169
01:15:15.279 --> 01:15:20.680
don't remember, you know, and really, you know, but I did.

1170
01:15:20.760 --> 01:15:23.680
I did remember hearing something about that a couple of times,

1171
01:15:23.680 --> 01:15:25.159
and I was happy for him.

1172
01:15:25.960 --> 01:15:32.920
But yeah, speaking of family, I know you probably this

1173
01:15:33.079 --> 01:15:35.279
was probably one thing you can't talk too much about.

1174
01:15:35.319 --> 01:15:41.159
But his relationship with Mitch turned south or already was south.

1175
01:15:41.479 --> 01:15:43.239
Do you remember anything about that.

1176
01:15:45.479 --> 01:15:51.119
Yeah, he he didn't have very many strong words about

1177
01:15:51.239 --> 01:15:56.039
uh about his brother. Yeah, that's about as far as

1178
01:15:56.079 --> 01:15:58.199
I really want to go into that. Yeah.

1179
01:15:58.279 --> 01:15:59.880
Tchah.

1180
01:16:00.319 --> 01:16:02.439
Again, I don't know. I don't. I don't know the gentleman,

1181
01:16:02.600 --> 01:16:06.520
so yeah, I I don't. I don't feel like getting

1182
01:16:06.560 --> 01:16:08.720
involved or just fanning anybody. I don't really know.

1183
01:16:09.479 --> 01:16:13.359
Yeah, and they didn't talk shone at all that you

1184
01:16:13.479 --> 01:16:13.680
know of.

1185
01:16:15.119 --> 01:16:18.880
No, No, I don't recall him ever saying that they

1186
01:16:18.880 --> 01:16:22.760
were on speaking terms at all. And uh no, definite

1187
01:16:22.840 --> 01:16:23.039
like that.

1188
01:16:23.199 --> 01:16:26.760
No, And I'm guessing the answer is probably no. But

1189
01:16:26.840 --> 01:16:31.680
I have to ask did he talk about they're growing

1190
01:16:31.760 --> 01:16:34.560
up or anything him and his brother, or maybe any

1191
01:16:34.640 --> 01:16:37.479
childhood abuse or anything we along those lines.

1192
01:16:38.800 --> 01:16:43.680
No, Actually everything he said kind of just checked out,

1193
01:16:43.840 --> 01:16:46.720
is like leave it to beaver kind of stuff, you know.

1194
01:16:46.960 --> 01:16:52.000
Just yeah, he had a great childhood, he was happy. Yeah,

1195
01:16:52.039 --> 01:16:54.720
And then I was like, geez, them guys had all

1196
01:16:54.720 --> 01:16:59.760
the luck, right and yeah, so yeah, nothing nothing that ever.

1197
01:17:00.960 --> 01:17:05.479
Nothing everyone's raised about any at trauma. And I know

1198
01:17:05.560 --> 01:17:08.560
trauma is a motherfucker, so you know, I get it.

1199
01:17:08.680 --> 01:17:11.479
So weah, but nothing was ever raised about that.

1200
01:17:12.039 --> 01:17:14.680
And nothing like with him and Mitch growing up that

1201
01:17:14.840 --> 01:17:16.199
he's said specifically.

1202
01:17:18.000 --> 01:17:21.279
No, I recall that they they he said something about

1203
01:17:21.279 --> 01:17:24.680
them being being cool for a while. I don't know

1204
01:17:24.680 --> 01:17:27.960
if he was a sibling, right, Yeah, I don't even

1205
01:17:28.039 --> 01:17:32.640
know how that would go or it's one event kind

1206
01:17:32.640 --> 01:17:37.039
of fucked it all up. But yeah, yeah, that's about it.

1207
01:17:37.840 --> 01:17:41.479
On a different vein, but a similar kind of contact,

1208
01:17:41.600 --> 01:17:44.560
he said he got some freaky fan mail. Can you

1209
01:17:44.560 --> 01:17:45.680
say anything about it?

1210
01:17:46.600 --> 01:17:54.079
Uh? Sure, yeah, he Uh occasionally, I'm not gonna say that,

1211
01:17:54.199 --> 01:17:57.319
like they had to bring in like stuffel bags or

1212
01:17:57.359 --> 01:18:00.760
like stack up bags full of mail, just dumping it.

1213
01:18:01.399 --> 01:18:03.600
But every once in a while he would get he

1214
01:18:03.600 --> 01:18:06.239
would get a random sending him send him a letter

1215
01:18:06.319 --> 01:18:10.640
or two. I would too, but I'm way less. But

1216
01:18:10.840 --> 01:18:12.960
and mine were never fucking cool. They were always just

1217
01:18:13.000 --> 01:18:16.920
some fucking turkey motherfucker and some other prize. And now

1218
01:18:16.960 --> 01:18:19.520
I'm like, I, who the who the fuck are you?

1219
01:18:20.079 --> 01:18:23.359
But no, he got some uh he had, you know,

1220
01:18:23.399 --> 01:18:28.199
he had a couple of murder group. He's like, wow, okay,

1221
01:18:28.840 --> 01:18:32.399
some were very attractive, and I don't know, I was

1222
01:18:32.479 --> 01:18:34.880
kind of kind of a bit fascinated with that. And

1223
01:18:35.960 --> 01:18:40.159
it's always I always could appreciate the rock stars and

1224
01:18:40.199 --> 01:18:42.960
the culture of personality and all that, and so it

1225
01:18:43.119 --> 01:18:43.880
fascinated me.

1226
01:18:44.439 --> 01:18:46.159
Do you know if he's in a really like is

1227
01:18:46.159 --> 01:18:48.159
he dating anybody that you know of?

1228
01:18:49.239 --> 01:18:51.800
In a few of his letters, he was. He did

1229
01:18:51.880 --> 01:19:01.159
talk about talk about some relationships, but uh, a relationship.

1230
01:19:01.840 --> 01:19:04.920
Come to think of it, probably she's probably gonna listen

1231
01:19:04.960 --> 01:19:07.960
to this, and uh, probably I shouldn't say too much

1232
01:19:07.960 --> 01:19:11.800
more after that. But yeah, during the early days of

1233
01:19:11.840 --> 01:19:14.880
all the publicity all that, there there were a couple

1234
01:19:14.920 --> 01:19:19.199
of a couple of uh, I guess murder groupies and

1235
01:19:20.319 --> 01:19:23.680
they some were really cool. They shared some row. He

1236
01:19:23.800 --> 01:19:26.520
ended up giving me a lot of not the letters,

1237
01:19:26.600 --> 01:19:29.560
but like the things that they were including on Lyris.

1238
01:19:29.680 --> 01:19:33.199
There was one that included, believe it or not, vintage

1239
01:19:33.279 --> 01:19:38.199
Playboy magazine articles. You know they always say, oh, I

1240
01:19:38.319 --> 01:19:41.880
just read it for the articles, Well she did, and

1241
01:19:42.399 --> 01:19:46.600
so like vintage seventies Playboy articles, an old poem by

1242
01:19:46.680 --> 01:19:50.119
shel Silverstein that was very very cool, a little bit

1243
01:19:50.159 --> 01:19:53.600
of a bit of almost borderlining on long body limericks,

1244
01:19:53.640 --> 01:19:58.760
so that was kind of cool. Some photocopies of paintings

1245
01:19:58.800 --> 01:20:01.720
they did and whatnot. And I enjoyed that in the color,

1246
01:20:01.920 --> 01:20:04.960
you know, just seeing vivid colorations and things that was

1247
01:20:05.039 --> 01:20:09.439
kind of cool some or maybe a little disturbing or

1248
01:20:09.479 --> 01:20:11.920
some of the things that he kind of relayed to me,

1249
01:20:12.000 --> 01:20:14.119
And we kind of had a laugh about that not

1250
01:20:14.199 --> 01:20:16.600
being freaked out by it, because I mean, at that point,

1251
01:20:16.640 --> 01:20:18.920
I mean, are you really going to be freaked out

1252
01:20:19.199 --> 01:20:23.800
by anything? After being desensitized to the tired situation and

1253
01:20:23.840 --> 01:20:25.640
then you're locked inside of a wall, like what the

1254
01:20:25.680 --> 01:20:27.479
fuck are these people actually going to do to you?

1255
01:20:28.279 --> 01:20:31.640
I don't know. After a while, some of it kind

1256
01:20:31.640 --> 01:20:35.079
of became tedious where it's like this is kind of

1257
01:20:35.079 --> 01:20:39.079
like a fly buzzing around while I'm circling the drain

1258
01:20:40.119 --> 01:20:43.760
kind of a thing. So I know he had put

1259
01:20:43.760 --> 01:20:45.920
a stop to a few of the ones. But then again,

1260
01:20:46.079 --> 01:20:49.680
if somebody is if you're destitute and you have nobody

1261
01:20:49.720 --> 01:20:51.960
to fucking throw ten dollars on your books so you

1262
01:20:51.960 --> 01:20:55.119
can get some in a couple of hos and ding

1263
01:20:55.239 --> 01:20:58.640
dongs and or some napella, are you really going to

1264
01:20:58.720 --> 01:20:59.439
say no to them?

1265
01:21:00.199 --> 01:21:00.399
Right?

1266
01:21:01.479 --> 01:21:01.880
Yeah?

1267
01:21:02.600 --> 01:21:06.880
Another question about just your relationship with him. I know

1268
01:21:06.960 --> 01:21:10.640
you said at one moment where kind of lost his

1269
01:21:10.720 --> 01:21:13.000
temper but it was like a two out of ten.

1270
01:21:13.800 --> 01:21:16.359
Did you have any moments and even if it wasn't

1271
01:21:16.399 --> 01:21:22.039
like anger, but any moments where you generally or had

1272
01:21:22.079 --> 01:21:24.720
any kind of fear of him, just like, oh what

1273
01:21:24.840 --> 01:21:28.239
if he did do this? And now I'm did you

1274
01:21:28.279 --> 01:21:29.399
have any moment like that?

1275
01:21:31.079 --> 01:21:41.239
No? No, I mean not no, and which and what

1276
01:21:41.319 --> 01:21:46.439
I'm thinking about is times of what could be maybe

1277
01:21:46.600 --> 01:21:51.439
construed as a fearful scenario while in jail, like a

1278
01:21:51.520 --> 01:21:56.000
confrontational scenario. This was say in ordery inmates, you know,

1279
01:21:56.159 --> 01:21:59.560
not chant or just a random guy that's having a

1280
01:21:59.600 --> 01:22:02.399
shooting day, doesn't like to look on your face, doesn't

1281
01:22:02.479 --> 01:22:06.319
like your fucking skin color, doesn't like your sexuality, and

1282
01:22:06.359 --> 01:22:11.680
then it escalates to a level where the confrontation becomes

1283
01:22:11.399 --> 01:22:19.279
an alternation that I know, even that never struck fear

1284
01:22:20.279 --> 01:22:24.359
in me. So I don't know, maybe I'm the wrong

1285
01:22:24.520 --> 01:22:32.560
guy to ask that because I maybe our compartmentalization or

1286
01:22:32.680 --> 01:22:36.399
just my comfort around the guy. But you know, I

1287
01:22:36.640 --> 01:22:40.439
usually I usually I'm I'm a pretty empathetic person that

1288
01:22:40.479 --> 01:22:46.479
picks up cues pretty well. But no, never however, as

1289
01:22:46.560 --> 01:22:49.960
I'm you know, rambling on about whatever whatever shit I'm

1290
01:22:49.960 --> 01:22:54.000
talking about, I just remembered something. There was an instance

1291
01:22:54.800 --> 01:22:58.359
there there was a group of younger African American gentlemen

1292
01:22:58.479 --> 01:23:03.720
that kind of took exception to him. They were some gangster,

1293
01:23:03.920 --> 01:23:07.199
want to be type guys that were eager to kind

1294
01:23:07.239 --> 01:23:13.239
of please the old the og crowd. And then, you know,

1295
01:23:13.479 --> 01:23:18.960
so seeing young white boy all over the news allegedly

1296
01:23:19.039 --> 01:23:22.680
kills his parents, you know that, you know, like that

1297
01:23:22.720 --> 01:23:27.840
white boy be tripping, you know. And so for people

1298
01:23:28.079 --> 01:23:32.840
that say that they live on a fringe of society

1299
01:23:32.880 --> 01:23:36.920
where guns and violence is an everyday thing, which I

1300
01:23:37.079 --> 01:23:39.800
get and I understand because I grew up in a

1301
01:23:39.920 --> 01:23:45.640
very dangerous part of Milwaukee, they were disgusted and actually

1302
01:23:45.640 --> 01:23:50.880
felt threatened by just his you know, just his alleged crime.

1303
01:23:51.319 --> 01:23:54.560
Oh he's a serial killer. Oh I've never been around

1304
01:23:54.640 --> 01:23:58.319
to serial killer. This guy's freaking me out. Instead of like,

1305
01:23:58.960 --> 01:24:01.479
you know, what you think would happen of them, like

1306
01:24:01.680 --> 01:24:04.600
you know, ganging up on them and jumping them, they

1307
01:24:04.960 --> 01:24:09.279
actually put in several requests to the deputy and try

1308
01:24:09.359 --> 01:24:10.479
to kite him out.

1309
01:24:12.600 --> 01:24:15.920
And uh, that younger African American group did.

1310
01:24:17.319 --> 01:24:21.880
Yeah, And it was and we had heard that it

1311
01:24:22.119 --> 01:24:28.840
was kind of put together by an older an older

1312
01:24:28.880 --> 01:24:31.840
member of the gang that actually we never had an issue.

1313
01:24:31.920 --> 01:24:34.760
We kind of we all existed out of separate kind

1314
01:24:34.760 --> 01:24:38.680
of zone from them, but we were always tordial to

1315
01:24:38.760 --> 01:24:42.119
be fraid a lot of times. And this this just

1316
01:24:42.520 --> 01:24:45.800
sounds fucking silly coming out of my mouth, because yeah,

1317
01:24:45.840 --> 01:24:48.920
this is not how I run my normal data day

1318
01:24:49.000 --> 01:24:51.279
life or the or the things I believe in. But

1319
01:24:51.560 --> 01:24:57.880
jail politics are what they are. They felt that maybe

1320
01:24:57.960 --> 01:25:02.439
our constituents, constituentancy of the people that we hung out with,

1321
01:25:02.520 --> 01:25:08.680
which which was inclusive but was predominantly white. Uh, maybe

1322
01:25:08.720 --> 01:25:13.159
that we were getting too large or something. We had

1323
01:25:13.239 --> 01:25:16.840
heard something about that, which is fucking preposterous to me,

1324
01:25:16.880 --> 01:25:22.479
and you know, kind of weird, gross, but regardless, I mean,

1325
01:25:22.560 --> 01:25:26.319
he was the big He was probably the biggest name

1326
01:25:26.920 --> 01:25:29.319
out of anybody in the pod. I mean, there was

1327
01:25:29.359 --> 01:25:35.880
a mysticism about Chander because just the I guess the exoticness,

1328
01:25:36.359 --> 01:25:39.640
if that's the right word of the crime, you know,

1329
01:25:39.720 --> 01:25:42.920
of the chartist, a gang land style of shooting of

1330
01:25:42.960 --> 01:25:46.000
two parents. I mean, yeah, that's the news worthy dismemberment,

1331
01:25:46.720 --> 01:25:48.760
you know, coupled with.

1332
01:25:50.319 --> 01:25:51.479
The fireplace thing.

1333
01:25:52.720 --> 01:25:55.479
Yeah, the fireplace thing. Let's let's not forget about the

1334
01:25:55.479 --> 01:25:56.520
fucking fireplaces.

1335
01:25:56.720 --> 01:25:59.760
It's a whole package that's like wow, oh yeah. And

1336
01:25:59.840 --> 01:26:02.479
his I think it would be different if he was

1337
01:26:03.039 --> 01:26:07.680
more of a quote unquote psychotic character, you know, but

1338
01:26:07.840 --> 01:26:14.119
his even keeledness is just no violent history. And I

1339
01:26:14.159 --> 01:26:18.640
think at least that's what fascinated me and going into it.

1340
01:26:18.680 --> 01:26:21.239
You look at him, you read everything. You're like, this

1341
01:26:21.359 --> 01:26:24.199
kid couldn't have done this, you know, you read the details,

1342
01:26:24.239 --> 01:26:27.520
and I think that's what that's what true me, and

1343
01:26:27.560 --> 01:26:30.600
you know, it's just not possible, Like this is way too.

1344
01:26:32.560 --> 01:26:37.199
You know, yeah, I way too. I know. Uh yeah.

1345
01:26:37.279 --> 01:26:41.840
Pleasant guy said please, said thank you, made eye contact

1346
01:26:41.880 --> 01:26:45.199
with you. He was witty, he was slightly charismatic when

1347
01:26:45.439 --> 01:26:49.800
he wasn't extroverted. He wasn't introverted. He was just he

1348
01:26:50.000 --> 01:26:55.560
just existed. And I don't know I dug him, though, Man,

1349
01:26:56.520 --> 01:26:57.199
what can I say?

1350
01:27:08.720 --> 01:27:12.159
I think the chances of Chandler getting out are and

1351
01:27:12.199 --> 01:27:15.000
maybe you'll disagree with me, but I would say less

1352
01:27:15.039 --> 01:27:19.720
than a thousandth of a percent. Maybe it would have

1353
01:27:19.800 --> 01:27:21.600
to take almost a miracle.

1354
01:27:23.199 --> 01:27:28.920
Yeah, I mean, yeah, you know, I forgot what the

1355
01:27:28.960 --> 01:27:32.159
actual terms of the senses are made to the lighten

1356
01:27:32.199 --> 01:27:35.960
at this. But it's natural life, isn't it. So he's

1357
01:27:36.279 --> 01:27:41.239
eligible for parole right after twenty some years.

1358
01:27:41.600 --> 01:27:43.520
No, it's uh no parole.

1359
01:27:44.680 --> 01:27:49.000
Okay, all right, yeah so that makes sense. Okay, Yeah, So,

1360
01:27:49.119 --> 01:27:53.000
I mean, you know, granted if they're if appeals go

1361
01:27:53.119 --> 01:27:57.399
through and there's the grassy Knoll type thing that comes

1362
01:27:57.399 --> 01:28:00.920
out that proves it his innocence, which I gotta say,

1363
01:28:01.000 --> 01:28:04.399
I hope happens. I'm you know, I'm not delusional about it,

1364
01:28:04.439 --> 01:28:04.760
but you.

1365
01:28:04.800 --> 01:28:07.319
Know, I hope that I I mean, I.

1366
01:28:09.800 --> 01:28:14.840
Yeah, I mean the family deserves closure. There. There deserves

1367
01:28:14.840 --> 01:28:19.399
to be a exclosure, and at this at at the

1368
01:28:19.520 --> 01:28:22.319
rate or at the at where it is, I mean,

1369
01:28:22.640 --> 01:28:25.960
there's no complete closure in a period of twenty four hours.

1370
01:28:25.960 --> 01:28:29.039
I've been thrust in this position. I guess the onus

1371
01:28:29.119 --> 01:28:31.520
is on me because I'm the first guy of our

1372
01:28:31.560 --> 01:28:35.039
group to get up again. I'm I'm not one of

1373
01:28:35.039 --> 01:28:38.199
his childhood friends. I can't comment on any of that stuff.

1374
01:28:38.319 --> 01:28:41.600
I just knew the guy while well the ship was

1375
01:28:41.720 --> 01:28:43.000
hitting the fan.

1376
01:28:42.880 --> 01:28:46.319
You know, right, Well, let me ask you this. That's

1377
01:28:46.399 --> 01:28:50.439
kind of a follow up. If if hypothetically appeals fail,

1378
01:28:50.840 --> 01:28:54.159
I think he's on one of his last ones, and

1379
01:28:54.199 --> 01:28:57.439
he's not on death row, so you won't get those appeals,

1380
01:28:57.520 --> 01:28:59.720
you know, they get to go through an exhaustive list.

1381
01:29:00.119 --> 01:29:01.439
Yeah, we don't have that here.

1382
01:29:02.079 --> 01:29:06.520
You think if hypothetically he exhaust his appeals and he's

1383
01:29:07.079 --> 01:29:09.159
you know, basically in there for life, do you think

1384
01:29:09.319 --> 01:29:12.479
he would ever give an interview specifically to me.

1385
01:29:15.600 --> 01:29:17.479
I'll put in a good word for you, I guess,

1386
01:29:17.600 --> 01:29:23.960
But judging by his personality, I don't know how how

1387
01:29:24.399 --> 01:29:28.439
how of an entertaining uh interview it would be. I mean,

1388
01:29:29.079 --> 01:29:30.680
just by the nature of what it is, it would

1389
01:29:30.720 --> 01:29:35.000
be entertained, all right, I get it personally if I

1390
01:29:35.000 --> 01:29:37.039
if I was, if I was in that situation, as

1391
01:29:37.079 --> 01:29:40.560
soon as the last huge drops, you kind of got

1392
01:29:40.560 --> 01:29:43.800
to be like, well and reserve yourself to the this

1393
01:29:43.920 --> 01:29:46.119
to the rest of your life, you know, yeah, and

1394
01:29:46.199 --> 01:29:49.600
just be like, well, accept you know, the five stages

1395
01:29:49.680 --> 01:29:50.640
of grief or whatever.

1396
01:29:51.560 --> 01:29:54.039
And even you know, I'm not sure maybe you can

1397
01:29:54.079 --> 01:29:57.279
speak about his spiritual reality, But even if he was

1398
01:29:57.319 --> 01:30:03.920
an atheist, there's something about like confession and clearing your

1399
01:30:03.960 --> 01:30:07.239
conscience that can kind of heal the soul. I think,

1400
01:30:07.319 --> 01:30:09.199
I don't know, I've experienced that in my own life,

1401
01:30:09.239 --> 01:30:12.960
even though I'm sure tendencies. Do you do you think

1402
01:30:13.159 --> 01:30:16.079
did he ever show his spiritual side or does he

1403
01:30:16.159 --> 01:30:18.239
have any Uh?

1404
01:30:18.760 --> 01:30:25.359
It's interesting question. I did mention that he uh preferred

1405
01:30:25.359 --> 01:30:30.119
the Kosher diet. He did make some uh some some

1406
01:30:30.239 --> 01:30:36.039
light Jewish humor. I do have some some distant Eastern

1407
01:30:36.199 --> 01:30:40.560
European Judaism in my my lineage.

1408
01:30:40.800 --> 01:30:41.239
That's why.

1409
01:30:43.079 --> 01:30:47.399
That must be it high aim so so uh yeah,

1410
01:30:47.439 --> 01:30:50.359
we uh so. I know that was something that was

1411
01:30:50.439 --> 01:30:52.720
kind of on his radar as far as like a

1412
01:30:53.479 --> 01:30:56.680
standard Western religion. I don't think any of the major

1413
01:30:56.720 --> 01:31:01.439
ones was anything that he would adhere to. I did

1414
01:31:02.960 --> 01:31:07.560
kind of open his eyes to Buddhism. There were some

1415
01:31:07.920 --> 01:31:14.560
Buddhist tracks and things, paganism, and then the obligatory stationism

1416
01:31:14.920 --> 01:31:18.439
and the imagery of like Motley Crue and just being

1417
01:31:18.479 --> 01:31:22.560
a fan of you know, cheesy eighty schlock metal. You

1418
01:31:22.760 --> 01:31:26.319
can't forget the pandogram in there, so like, well, if

1419
01:31:26.359 --> 01:31:28.920
people think you're a monster, you might as well fucking

1420
01:31:29.000 --> 01:31:32.479
embrace the fucking dark side, buddy. And we had a

1421
01:31:32.479 --> 01:31:36.880
good laugh about that. But yeah, gallows humor again, you know.

1422
01:31:37.000 --> 01:31:40.680
Right, Yeah, I've always thought about like if I was

1423
01:31:40.680 --> 01:31:46.039
in the see say I exhausted my appeals, like, would I,

1424
01:31:46.119 --> 01:31:48.600
you know, with the shell harden before I was able

1425
01:31:48.680 --> 01:31:54.319
to maybe decide confessing or telling everything in my version

1426
01:31:54.399 --> 01:31:57.399
of it, if that would Because of course his defense

1427
01:31:57.479 --> 01:31:59.840
was so passive, we didn't even get a version of

1428
01:32:00.680 --> 01:32:04.319
even if it was untruthful what he said or so

1429
01:32:04.359 --> 01:32:07.199
it just left everybody kind of wondering, well, what would

1430
01:32:07.479 --> 01:32:09.880
what would he say? You know, and I'm sure you

1431
01:32:09.920 --> 01:32:11.920
saw that all I ever read it, people say, well,

1432
01:32:11.920 --> 01:32:14.840
what what's his or you know, so that's just my

1433
01:32:14.960 --> 01:32:18.520
curiosity if you ever maybe would reach that point, and

1434
01:32:18.640 --> 01:32:20.520
I guess time will tell.

1435
01:32:21.880 --> 01:32:26.159
Well, well, here's a fun fact. The famous any lawyers

1436
01:32:26.720 --> 01:32:30.640
listening reach out to me speech that he made at

1437
01:32:30.680 --> 01:32:36.239
the end was actually written by me, No, really predominantly

1438
01:32:36.279 --> 01:32:38.199
by me. I mean we you know, me and a

1439
01:32:38.239 --> 01:32:40.800
couple of the other guys kind of sat around and

1440
01:32:40.840 --> 01:32:43.880
we kind of brainstormed about it. And the story about

1441
01:32:43.920 --> 01:32:47.880
that was like, typically at the at the end of

1442
01:32:48.199 --> 01:32:52.159
a trial, when you're found guilty or you're signing a

1443
01:32:52.199 --> 01:32:55.920
plea bargain, they wanted you to sign this thing reading

1444
01:32:56.319 --> 01:33:00.359
that either you plan to appeal, you're not sure, or

1445
01:33:00.399 --> 01:33:03.520
you have no plans to appeal, And he told and

1446
01:33:03.520 --> 01:33:06.960
he told us that his lawyer was pushing him to

1447
01:33:07.000 --> 01:33:11.039
say he doesn't plan to appeal. And the reasoning behind

1448
01:33:11.119 --> 01:33:14.600
and and the reasoning behind that that was explained to

1449
01:33:14.680 --> 01:33:18.439
him and then explained to us was that if he

1450
01:33:19.079 --> 01:33:22.920
checked off that he does not plan to appeal, then

1451
01:33:24.039 --> 01:33:28.000
maybe Judge Hyland will have a little bit more not

1452
01:33:28.159 --> 01:33:31.680
so much leniency, but he wouldn't have the tendency to

1453
01:33:31.760 --> 01:33:36.479
completely just shit cannon and maxim out right, because if

1454
01:33:36.479 --> 01:33:38.439
he sees that you have a planet appeal, we the's

1455
01:33:38.439 --> 01:33:43.840
fuck you that, you know? So, so you know you

1456
01:33:43.920 --> 01:33:46.319
play your appealing, well, I'll just give you the max,

1457
01:33:46.479 --> 01:33:51.079
just just to be sure, you know. So yeah, that

1458
01:33:51.279 --> 01:33:54.279
was the reasoning that was explained to us, and and

1459
01:33:54.600 --> 01:33:58.159
so we were like, well that's that's kind of fucking

1460
01:33:58.199 --> 01:34:02.479
shisty as hell. And he made sure that he checked

1461
01:34:03.760 --> 01:34:11.479
he's not sure yet. I don't know if it was

1462
01:34:11.640 --> 01:34:14.520
me came up with like, look, you're going to have

1463
01:34:14.920 --> 01:34:18.319
a second top. What are you going to talk about it?

1464
01:34:18.640 --> 01:34:18.920
Right?

1465
01:34:19.119 --> 01:34:21.479
It's like I don't know, Well, this is going to

1466
01:34:21.720 --> 01:34:26.199
be a perfect opportunity to state that you feel like

1467
01:34:26.199 --> 01:34:29.520
you're being railroad. Traditionally, they're gonna you know, people are

1468
01:34:29.560 --> 01:34:34.000
going to express remorse or it's it's for however long

1469
01:34:34.119 --> 01:34:37.279
you talk, you're gonna be under the absolute microscope and

1470
01:34:37.359 --> 01:34:41.640
it's going to be the biggest rotation of this thing

1471
01:34:41.840 --> 01:34:44.319
is going to be hearing your voice for the first time.

1472
01:34:45.359 --> 01:34:48.000
So why not use that as a platform to reach

1473
01:34:48.039 --> 01:34:53.760
out for legal representation that wire better more aggressively fight

1474
01:34:54.000 --> 01:34:57.439
for your costs, right, instead of just kind of sitting

1475
01:34:57.439 --> 01:35:01.479
there thumbs up their fucking asses. So well, that's the

1476
01:35:01.520 --> 01:35:04.680
way we We were like, okay, but how do we

1477
01:35:04.800 --> 01:35:08.680
phrase it? You have to phrase it right where you're

1478
01:35:08.720 --> 01:35:15.119
not admitting guilt or you're not admitting innocence either. We're

1479
01:35:15.239 --> 01:35:19.159
not pleading for innocence because then it's big color the

1480
01:35:19.560 --> 01:35:23.159
appeal and everything after that, because I mean, at that

1481
01:35:23.279 --> 01:35:25.960
point this is going to be admitted into evidence in

1482
01:35:26.039 --> 01:35:31.960
the appeal anyways. So I so that then you got

1483
01:35:31.960 --> 01:35:35.159
to be dead pants. You can't fucking go over the

1484
01:35:35.319 --> 01:35:38.319
ham on on the emotions and not that he's that

1485
01:35:38.520 --> 01:35:44.000
expressive anyways. So three three or four lines just plainly

1486
01:35:44.079 --> 01:35:50.439
delivered politely but assertedly. You know, that's that's the best

1487
01:35:50.439 --> 01:35:53.520
thing you can do. And I mean you go too

1488
01:35:53.600 --> 01:35:56.239
far into it where you start, you know, I wish

1489
01:35:56.319 --> 01:36:00.319
this never happened, or even just a key word or

1490
01:36:00.479 --> 01:36:03.760
a diff it your toe into a I regrets. It's

1491
01:36:03.800 --> 01:36:06.560
gonna be under the microscope. They're gonna be fucking flying

1492
01:36:06.640 --> 01:36:09.840
down a reddit hole. So fast with with Nancy Grace

1493
01:36:09.920 --> 01:36:12.520
and all those motherfuckers. They're they're gonna be shitting on

1494
01:36:12.560 --> 01:36:15.319
you immediately. I mean, obviously he got shit on for

1495
01:36:16.119 --> 01:36:19.199
and you know we you know, we expected that, but

1496
01:36:19.800 --> 01:36:23.680
the number one thing that he wanted was to find

1497
01:36:23.800 --> 01:36:27.760
somebody to kind of pick it up pro boto, you know.

1498
01:36:28.279 --> 01:36:32.520
And I mean, yeah, and you know I'm Devil's advocate again.

1499
01:36:32.640 --> 01:36:35.600
I mean, if you make your if you you can

1500
01:36:35.640 --> 01:36:39.680
make your fucking career, if you you know, get fucking

1501
01:36:39.720 --> 01:36:43.319
Cambra haul this enough, if you can prove that that

1502
01:36:43.399 --> 01:36:46.319
the guy didn't do it, and what the fuck You're

1503
01:36:46.359 --> 01:36:53.119
made for the rest of your life right there? You know? Yeah?

1504
01:36:53.199 --> 01:36:54.920
It uh, And it kind of strikes me as one

1505
01:36:54.920 --> 01:36:57.479
of those situations where you have to pick one or

1506
01:36:57.479 --> 01:37:00.520
the other. Like if you're gonna if you're gonna say

1507
01:37:00.560 --> 01:37:03.439
no appeal, then you're gonna throw yourself at the mercy

1508
01:37:03.479 --> 01:37:07.560
of the cord and apologize and remorse. But if you're

1509
01:37:07.560 --> 01:37:09.680
gonna go the opposite way, it's like one of those

1510
01:37:09.720 --> 01:37:12.560
make or break moments. Am I gonna choose this path

1511
01:37:12.640 --> 01:37:17.079
or this path? And yeah, I mean for for for

1512
01:37:17.159 --> 01:37:19.560
the path he chose. I think you know, you have

1513
01:37:19.640 --> 01:37:23.399
the football. If you're down by fifty points, you might

1514
01:37:23.439 --> 01:37:24.560
as well be going in the air.

1515
01:37:24.800 --> 01:37:27.520
You know, you might as well, you know, And none

1516
01:37:27.560 --> 01:37:31.119
of us were fucking delusional. We saw this was playing out.

1517
01:37:31.279 --> 01:37:33.000
We're not fucking idiots.

1518
01:37:32.560 --> 01:37:35.840
Here, Yeah, exactly, So we knew.

1519
01:37:35.600 --> 01:37:38.920
At that point we had you know, I feel like

1520
01:37:38.960 --> 01:37:41.840
I'm part of his fucking dream team. I'm a part

1521
01:37:41.880 --> 01:37:45.600
of his jail house dream team of lawyers. But no,

1522
01:37:45.720 --> 01:37:47.960
we were like, the best thing you can do is

1523
01:37:48.079 --> 01:37:54.399
just fucking try to the mulligan. Yeah right right, Yeah.

1524
01:37:55.439 --> 01:37:59.359
As we're winding down this interview, you're gonna hear maybe

1525
01:37:59.439 --> 01:38:02.159
a little bit angst in my voice. Part of me

1526
01:38:02.359 --> 01:38:05.640
just wanted to shake this Wallace guy and say stop

1527
01:38:05.680 --> 01:38:10.239
writing letters to Chandler Alderson. He's a sick, psychopathic, remorseless

1528
01:38:10.279 --> 01:38:12.720
son of a bitch. I never said those words, but

1529
01:38:12.800 --> 01:38:16.319
that's kind of how I was feeling internally, and looking

1530
01:38:16.520 --> 01:38:20.359
back now listening to this interview almost a year later,

1531
01:38:20.640 --> 01:38:24.800
I can see how kind of childish that perspective is.

1532
01:38:25.399 --> 01:38:28.159
This man Wallace had a friendship with Chandler based on

1533
01:38:28.279 --> 01:38:33.119
an extremely unique set of circumstances and given Wallace's background

1534
01:38:33.119 --> 01:38:37.039
with heroin and I imagine background doing other types of

1535
01:38:37.079 --> 01:38:40.520
things that heroin addicts. Do you know the types of

1536
01:38:40.600 --> 01:38:44.079
things that land you in county jail? He established this

1537
01:38:44.239 --> 01:38:48.359
relationship on the foundation of non judgment, and I guess

1538
01:38:48.399 --> 01:38:50.560
if I were in his shoes, I can't say I

1539
01:38:50.560 --> 01:38:54.800
wouldn't do the same. I respect Wallace, I can't say

1540
01:38:54.800 --> 01:38:58.479
I respect his decision to continue his friendship with Chandler

1541
01:38:58.720 --> 01:39:02.239
outside of jail, but that's his decision. It was a

1542
01:39:02.279 --> 01:39:05.920
pleasure talking with a man, and I'm extremely grateful he

1543
01:39:06.000 --> 01:39:08.199
took the time to sit down with me and share

1544
01:39:08.239 --> 01:39:11.600
his thoughts. Here's the end of our interview. Thank you

1545
01:39:11.960 --> 01:39:22.880
for listening. Yeah, I think if I had like you,

1546
01:39:22.880 --> 01:39:27.520
you strike me definitely as an intelligent guy. And let

1547
01:39:27.520 --> 01:39:30.000
me just ask you. Some people non related, but you're

1548
01:39:30.039 --> 01:39:35.039
not a flat earsther or like a somebody. Okay, Yeah,

1549
01:39:35.039 --> 01:39:37.800
I didn't think so. But I feel like if.

1550
01:39:37.680 --> 01:39:40.479
I had Holocaust deniers or.

1551
01:39:41.079 --> 01:39:44.760
Adel like, if I could get like if I and

1552
01:39:44.800 --> 01:39:46.920
I'm not even saying do this, this is kind of

1553
01:39:46.960 --> 01:39:49.279
besides the point. But if I could present to you

1554
01:39:51.279 --> 01:39:56.159
the evidence from the trial in about ten minutes, it would,

1555
01:39:56.439 --> 01:39:58.199
of course, it would mean you're taking me at my

1556
01:39:58.279 --> 01:40:01.560
word that the trial was there, but or the trial

1557
01:40:01.680 --> 01:40:04.239
was that I'm representing it fairly. But I think you

1558
01:40:04.279 --> 01:40:08.520
would be like, yeah, there's it would be almost similar

1559
01:40:08.640 --> 01:40:11.600
to being down by fifty points with two seconds.

1560
01:40:11.680 --> 01:40:15.199
Yeah, And I get it. I get it. Yeah, I

1561
01:40:15.279 --> 01:40:15.680
get it.

1562
01:40:16.119 --> 01:40:19.119
But it makes sense why you get it? Yeah, yeah,

1563
01:40:19.199 --> 01:40:22.720
I mean it makes sense for you to have the

1564
01:40:22.760 --> 01:40:26.039
attitude towards him that you have in your position. I

1565
01:40:26.039 --> 01:40:28.119
think I would probably have a very similar.

1566
01:40:29.840 --> 01:40:33.920
It's a strange thing, man, it's a strange brotherhood, you know.

1567
01:40:34.119 --> 01:40:37.680
And you know, I don't know. I take I take

1568
01:40:37.720 --> 01:40:40.159
friendships very seriously and I try to be a man

1569
01:40:40.199 --> 01:40:41.319
of my word the best.

1570
01:40:41.119 --> 01:40:44.279
I can, you know, And I think that's yeah, I.

1571
01:40:46.439 --> 01:40:49.760
Get it, I get it. But you got to support

1572
01:40:49.800 --> 01:40:55.600
your fucking boys, you know, And you know I I do.

1573
01:40:56.199 --> 01:41:02.520
I do completely understand the the heaviness of this case.

1574
01:41:03.319 --> 01:41:06.920
And I know that that I'm that sometimes I make

1575
01:41:07.039 --> 01:41:12.279
references and kind of glib approximation and stuff, but it's

1576
01:41:13.520 --> 01:41:16.039
it's you kind of just had to have been there,

1577
01:41:16.640 --> 01:41:21.000
you know. And it's maybe it's just like I catch

1578
01:41:21.039 --> 01:41:23.560
myself saying that some of these things I'm talking about

1579
01:41:23.600 --> 01:41:28.560
in reference to what happened, I'm just like, yeah, it's

1580
01:41:28.600 --> 01:41:33.239
it's it's just a weird levity that you have to

1581
01:41:33.279 --> 01:41:37.239
add to something so so heavy, you know.

1582
01:41:38.600 --> 01:41:43.520
Yeah, well, I think I've exhausted all my questions. Thank

1583
01:41:43.600 --> 01:41:46.720
you talking man, appreciate it.

1584
01:41:47.800 --> 01:41:50.199
Yeah, man, it's it's been. It's been fun. Yeah.

1585
01:41:50.600 --> 01:41:54.399
Can you think of anything else related to anything else

1586
01:41:54.439 --> 01:41:57.800
you want to say about Chandler or anything in general.

1587
01:42:00.279 --> 01:42:02.760
Apparently he likes to wear baseball hats. It his in

1588
01:42:02.800 --> 01:42:06.560
his in his previous Like, I don't know, that's about it.

1589
01:42:06.640 --> 01:42:09.000
I I would cut his hair. I was like, you

1590
01:42:09.079 --> 01:42:14.520
have you have wonderful hair, Chandler, right, Yeah, I was.

1591
01:42:14.880 --> 01:42:18.239
I was the UH. I was the trial barber. I

1592
01:42:18.239 --> 01:42:22.039
would cut his hair in jail. We UH had access

1593
01:42:22.079 --> 01:42:26.079
to these really shitty, beat up wall hair clippers. And

1594
01:42:27.159 --> 01:42:30.680
I taught my own hair, and I had family and

1595
01:42:31.199 --> 01:42:36.000
ex girlfriends that were estheticians and stuff, and uh, so

1596
01:42:36.159 --> 01:42:39.640
I was I know how to cut hair, so I

1597
01:42:39.760 --> 01:42:41.640
was like, let me cut your hair, and I gave

1598
01:42:41.800 --> 01:42:45.479
my hair cut and he absolutely loved it. Uh there's

1599
01:42:45.520 --> 01:42:47.319
there are there's footage of a couple of times where

1600
01:42:47.319 --> 01:42:50.760
he kind of has a little alfalfa sprout thing coming

1601
01:42:50.800 --> 01:42:53.359
out the back of his theme, back of his nowgat

1602
01:42:53.439 --> 01:42:55.560
But he liked it, so I kept it there for him.

1603
01:42:55.600 --> 01:42:58.720
So that was that was a personal aesthetic decision by him.

1604
01:42:58.800 --> 01:43:01.760
So I first we thought it was a little a

1605
01:43:01.760 --> 01:43:05.640
little over the top, but hey, he likes it all.

1606
01:43:05.600 --> 01:43:11.880
Right, man, Well thanks again, I do appreciate it. Yeah,

1607
01:43:11.880 --> 01:43:13.960
maybe we'll be in touch. If you ever have any

1608
01:43:14.039 --> 01:43:16.239
updates or anything, feel for.

1609
01:43:16.239 --> 01:43:20.760
You to man, Yeah, yeah, absolutely if anything jogs my

1610
01:43:20.880 --> 01:43:26.159
mind or when I get my response back. Dealing with

1611
01:43:27.159 --> 01:43:32.880
mail going to Dodge Correctional, it goes to a intermediary

1612
01:43:32.960 --> 01:43:37.560
place that scans it, puts it on, puts it in

1613
01:43:37.600 --> 01:43:42.760
an email, and then it gets sent to Dodge and

1614
01:43:42.800 --> 01:43:46.039
so there's like a two week long leg in between

1615
01:43:46.079 --> 01:43:50.079
sending and actually receiving. There's also a way of sending

1616
01:43:50.279 --> 01:43:54.760
like a direct they they're called text behind they're like

1617
01:43:54.800 --> 01:43:57.600
basically like text messages. You can you can send them

1618
01:43:57.600 --> 01:44:00.279
and that's a little bit quicker, you know what.

1619
01:44:00.600 --> 01:44:03.439
To get a crew to the first right or something.

1620
01:44:03.760 --> 01:44:09.039
Yeah, something along the lines that for the visits the

1621
01:44:09.199 --> 01:44:12.039
video business, you have to get approved. As far as

1622
01:44:12.600 --> 01:44:15.560
I think it's just an app or something, I'm not

1623
01:44:15.640 --> 01:44:18.880
exactly sure. I haven't really looked into it, but I

1624
01:44:19.439 --> 01:44:21.760
got a few few texts behind well I was in,

1625
01:44:22.000 --> 01:44:25.039
so I think it's just an app. It's a you

1626
01:44:25.159 --> 01:44:29.840
have to pay for it though it's texting.

1627
01:44:30.439 --> 01:44:34.319
Told me I needed to be like preapproved. My number

1628
01:44:34.359 --> 01:44:36.720
had to You had to basically like would have to

1629
01:44:36.720 --> 01:44:39.319
put my number in and say this person can message me.

1630
01:44:40.680 --> 01:44:43.560
Wasn't at wasn't while he was at Dane County.

1631
01:44:44.239 --> 01:44:46.600
Yeah, it was recent within the last month. I kind

1632
01:44:46.600 --> 01:44:48.359
of looked into it.

1633
01:44:48.800 --> 01:44:53.640
Oh, within last month. Yeah. Yeah, it's text behind dot

1634
01:44:53.680 --> 01:44:58.560
com or text behind app. Look into that. I'll look

1635
01:44:58.600 --> 01:45:01.479
into it too. Otherwise you could just kind of snail

1636
01:45:01.520 --> 01:45:03.640
mail them, but it will take a very long time.

1637
01:45:03.680 --> 01:45:04.920
I don't know if he tried that.

1638
01:45:05.000 --> 01:45:08.920
Before, but oh, I will say that's too. I had

1639
01:45:08.920 --> 01:45:13.840
this on just as one thought to you. And closing

1640
01:45:14.039 --> 01:45:18.279
is if he did do it and kind of like

1641
01:45:18.359 --> 01:45:20.520
he's trying to make the best of a situation, and

1642
01:45:20.560 --> 01:45:23.960
you kind of feel a friendship or as much as

1643
01:45:24.000 --> 01:45:26.079
whatever kind of friendship that is, you know, a little

1644
01:45:26.079 --> 01:45:30.520
bit different than usual. But uh like at least if

1645
01:45:30.560 --> 01:45:33.159
I was in that situation, I kind of already said this,

1646
01:45:33.279 --> 01:45:38.079
but like if if someone did hypothetically, if someone did

1647
01:45:38.159 --> 01:45:42.960
do that and they had no appeals, confessing or clearing

1648
01:45:43.000 --> 01:45:47.399
their conscience would probably be the best thing for that person,

1649
01:45:47.560 --> 01:45:50.800
A hypothetical person, you know what I mean. Just kind

1650
01:45:50.800 --> 01:45:55.560
of like my closing plea to the to the world,

1651
01:45:55.640 --> 01:45:59.159
to the universe is kind of because yeah, I don't know,

1652
01:45:59.199 --> 01:45:59.960
it's just crazy.

1653
01:46:00.279 --> 01:46:05.800
I mean, you know, if if if the last few drops,

1654
01:46:06.000 --> 01:46:10.399
you know, and uh, it's it's all over with. I mean,

1655
01:46:10.439 --> 01:46:13.640
he might but he might just take take it with him,

1656
01:46:14.159 --> 01:46:17.680
take you with him to the to the soap factory,

1657
01:46:17.760 --> 01:46:22.840
you know, absolutely, So I go, though, I guess it's

1658
01:46:22.880 --> 01:46:30.600
anybody's it's anybody's guess what's gonna happen. I I sincerely

1659
01:46:31.239 --> 01:46:34.039
hope the best for his mental state, you know, I

1660
01:46:34.079 --> 01:46:36.840
know it's going to be tough. Yeah, I mean, he's

1661
01:46:36.880 --> 01:46:42.039
a he's a human being and a bit a bit

1662
01:46:42.520 --> 01:46:47.079
understated but eccentric in a way. But he's still a

1663
01:46:47.159 --> 01:46:47.960
human being too.

1664
01:46:49.720 --> 01:46:55.600
One last question about his because I've had nightmares about

1665
01:46:55.640 --> 01:46:59.760
the case, not not, you know, it's whatever. I've had nightmares.

1666
01:47:00.039 --> 01:47:02.720
Imagine how I felt. That's such undo the guy every day.

1667
01:47:03.279 --> 01:47:08.520
Yeah, but like, okay, do you know that? So the dismemberment, Like,

1668
01:47:08.600 --> 01:47:13.239
one thing I'll have nightmares about is the false starts

1669
01:47:13.239 --> 01:47:16.960
on the bones, so like to saw through a few yeah,

1670
01:47:17.520 --> 01:47:20.319
and saw the first time is not going to catch

1671
01:47:20.439 --> 01:47:23.520
so you kind of have to keep going and keep going.

1672
01:47:23.560 --> 01:47:26.079
And the way that the bone broke is almost like

1673
01:47:26.159 --> 01:47:28.760
at the very end it was just ripped from the

1674
01:47:28.840 --> 01:47:32.359
limb and then the rest of it was sawed off.

1675
01:47:32.359 --> 01:47:34.560
You saw a branch and they just kind of kick

1676
01:47:34.600 --> 01:47:38.840
it off. Yeah, like I got splintering or something.

1677
01:47:39.520 --> 01:47:42.640
Did he ever have nightmares or did you ever see

1678
01:47:42.720 --> 01:47:44.359
him having bad dreams or anything?

1679
01:47:46.359 --> 01:47:55.119
Uh? No, not that I recall. Actually, jail is for

1680
01:47:55.239 --> 01:47:59.560
me personally. I have very very very vivid dreams in jail,

1681
01:48:00.720 --> 01:48:06.600
none of them not altogether unpleasant ones. I don't know

1682
01:48:06.880 --> 01:48:10.079
a lot of people have the same same thing. Some

1683
01:48:10.119 --> 01:48:13.119
of the theory the main theory is that it's the

1684
01:48:13.199 --> 01:48:16.520
fucking it's the flavored drink packets they gave me up.

1685
01:48:16.520 --> 01:48:19.119
But I mean that's a little bit of a conspiracy powerwash.

1686
01:48:19.640 --> 01:48:23.279
I think I think it's more so the lack of

1687
01:48:23.399 --> 01:48:27.760
stimulus that and that your mind is just kind of

1688
01:48:27.760 --> 01:48:31.920
making up for it while you sleep. And sleep was

1689
01:48:31.920 --> 01:48:34.600
my favorite time because I would get to see my parents,

1690
01:48:34.600 --> 01:48:37.279
I would get to fly, I would get to be outside,

1691
01:48:37.319 --> 01:48:39.640
I would get to be doing things that I love doing.

1692
01:48:40.359 --> 01:48:42.560
And I have these very lucid dreams, so I was

1693
01:48:42.600 --> 01:48:45.479
always looking forward to that. But I recall him talking

1694
01:48:45.520 --> 01:48:49.439
about his dreams sometimes nothing you know, too too out

1695
01:48:49.439 --> 01:48:52.600
of the ordinary or anything, But I don't. He was

1696
01:48:52.640 --> 01:48:55.720
a very very quiet sleeper, you know, it didn't toss

1697
01:48:55.760 --> 01:49:00.359
and turn all that much. He was on a pretty

1698
01:49:00.359 --> 01:49:06.319
heavy medication that you know that the nursing staff is

1699
01:49:06.760 --> 01:49:10.239
very eager to pass out. It's hard to get a

1700
01:49:10.239 --> 01:49:13.239
fucking anti biotic in jail, but they'll give you. They'll

1701
01:49:13.239 --> 01:49:16.239
give you these shitty fucking s s R S S

1702
01:49:16.359 --> 01:49:21.039
I S s R I UH tranquilizers to sedate you

1703
01:49:21.840 --> 01:49:25.119
pretty easily. But do you know.

1704
01:49:26.800 --> 01:49:27.159
Something?

1705
01:49:28.640 --> 01:49:33.840
Uh? I do but I don't know I think that's

1706
01:49:33.840 --> 01:49:36.079
a hippo violation. I'm gonna have to plete the fifth

1707
01:49:36.159 --> 01:49:39.359
on that one, you know, But I think it's pretty

1708
01:49:39.359 --> 01:49:42.800
safe to say that a lot of people are are

1709
01:49:43.159 --> 01:49:51.720
on antidepressants and there's there should be no stigma behind that. Absolutely,

1710
01:49:52.039 --> 01:49:55.720
you know, I get it, and so yeah, I mean

1711
01:49:55.840 --> 01:49:58.479
I'm gonna take a take a fifth on that one.

1712
01:49:58.560 --> 01:50:02.960
But one thing I do want to touch on that

1713
01:50:03.039 --> 01:50:08.520
I saw was kind of big as a former heroin enthusiast. Ye,

1714
01:50:09.199 --> 01:50:12.199
there was a lot of speculation about his heavy eyelated

1715
01:50:12.680 --> 01:50:16.239
look and that he was out opiates. For the record,

1716
01:50:16.359 --> 01:50:22.319
I had never seen him indulge in any yeah, any

1717
01:50:22.520 --> 01:50:26.239
opiates or drug use outside of his prescription medication. Oh,

1718
01:50:27.880 --> 01:50:33.840
I don't pay him as a regular user of drugs.

1719
01:50:33.880 --> 01:50:37.640
It was something that he never talked about. I mean,

1720
01:50:37.680 --> 01:50:40.159
he obviously knew my situation. I had talked about it,

1721
01:50:40.199 --> 01:50:42.960
and I think you know he did. He did a

1722
01:50:43.000 --> 01:50:46.600
fair about it drinking and in his college however long

1723
01:50:46.920 --> 01:50:51.039
that tenure was. But no, he did not strike me

1724
01:50:51.239 --> 01:50:56.840
as an opiate user. There were opiates in jail, uh,

1725
01:50:57.000 --> 01:51:00.399
There's there was a fair bit of subbot own and

1726
01:51:00.439 --> 01:51:04.520
a lot of sub utechs which you could easily snort

1727
01:51:04.560 --> 01:51:07.319
and catch a buzz, especially if you don't have, you know,

1728
01:51:07.520 --> 01:51:10.560
a tolerance to it. So that was always available and

1729
01:51:10.640 --> 01:51:13.600
for a bit of a price, but something that you know,

1730
01:51:13.640 --> 01:51:16.920
we could we obviously could have afforded between all of us.

1731
01:51:18.239 --> 01:51:22.680
So with that being said, you know, I'm not gonna

1732
01:51:22.760 --> 01:51:25.840
tell you if I indulged or not, but yeah, it

1733
01:51:25.960 --> 01:51:29.119
was there and he never did. It's not saying.

1734
01:51:29.680 --> 01:51:32.239
I'm glad you remember that. That's a good detO.

1735
01:51:32.960 --> 01:51:35.640
Yeah all right.

1736
01:51:35.560 --> 01:51:38.199
Man, Well thanks again. I want to take keep you

1737
01:51:38.239 --> 01:51:41.640
too long, but I really appreciate it. It's been a pleasure.

1738
01:51:43.039 --> 01:51:46.640
Yeah, absolutely, this is uh, this is great man, It's

1739
01:51:46.760 --> 01:51:49.960
kind of it's it's kind of surreal being able to

1740
01:51:50.279 --> 01:51:56.039
you know, talk to John Q public and whatnot about

1741
01:51:56.199 --> 01:51:58.680
you know, a very interesting period in my life.

1742
01:51:58.680 --> 01:52:01.720
I guess, yeah, probably one year. I haven't talked too

1743
01:52:01.840 --> 01:52:05.079
publicly about no.

1744
01:52:04.520 --> 01:52:06.800
No, I never really talked to that many people in

1745
01:52:06.840 --> 01:52:09.640
public to begin with. Yees, So I'm looking forward to that.

1746
01:52:11.600 --> 01:52:12.159
Absolutely.

1747
01:52:12.159 --> 01:52:12.399
Man.

1748
01:52:12.439 --> 01:52:13.640
Well'll keep in touch with you.

1749
01:52:13.760 --> 01:52:17.600
Hey, awesome man, Yeah, we'll keep in touch. All right.

1750
01:52:17.720 --> 01:52:19.039
Sounds good man, Take care.

1751
01:52:19.640 --> 01:52:20.720
Yeah, yeah you too, Bud.

1752
01:52:20.960 --> 01:52:29.560
Thanks stay tuned until after the credits for a clip

1753
01:52:29.680 --> 01:52:32.479
I think you're going to want to hear. Also, we

1754
01:52:32.600 --> 01:52:36.960
have one more episode this season, which is my interview

1755
01:52:37.000 --> 01:52:42.039
with Lisa, a woman who posed as an undercover romantic

1756
01:52:42.199 --> 01:52:46.640
interest for Chandler Halderson for her thesis paper that will

1757
01:52:46.680 --> 01:52:50.880
be coming out in the next week or so. I

1758
01:52:50.920 --> 01:52:54.000
want to thank everyone who supports us on Patreon. We

1759
01:52:54.039 --> 01:52:56.079
couldn't do it without you. I know I say that

1760
01:52:56.279 --> 01:53:00.119
every show, but seriously, if you have a minute, that's

1761
01:53:00.119 --> 01:53:03.359
all it takes to start supporting us. We are an

1762
01:53:03.359 --> 01:53:06.640
independent show and all I'm trying to do right now

1763
01:53:06.760 --> 01:53:11.439
is make enough money to feed my cats. Seriously, I'm

1764
01:53:11.439 --> 01:53:17.680
not a rich and famous crime junkie whatever YouTube celebrity.

1765
01:53:18.560 --> 01:53:21.479
I'm just grinding trying to make this show. I've been

1766
01:53:21.479 --> 01:53:23.800
doing this for the last four or five years now,

1767
01:53:24.159 --> 01:53:27.479
and I do have enough money to pay the bills

1768
01:53:27.520 --> 01:53:31.479
and feed my cats. But we seriously depend on every

1769
01:53:31.560 --> 01:53:35.479
single person who is in our Patreon. I see every

1770
01:53:35.560 --> 01:53:37.880
name that joins, it pops up on my phone and

1771
01:53:37.920 --> 01:53:41.479
I'm like, thank you, thank you for helping me survive.

1772
01:53:41.720 --> 01:53:45.920
I appreciate you. I know this is my dream job,

1773
01:53:46.479 --> 01:53:49.159
so I can't really complain about being poor right now,

1774
01:53:49.479 --> 01:53:53.720
but I do need your guys' donations to survive out

1775
01:53:53.720 --> 01:53:58.800
here in this healthscape, So thank you, truly. Every freaking

1776
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single dollar get on the Patreon or PayPal donation, it

1777
01:54:03.720 --> 01:54:06.560
makes a huge difference. I'm doing the taxes from last

1778
01:54:06.600 --> 01:54:11.680
year and I'm basically a you know, make a minimum

1779
01:54:11.680 --> 01:54:15.119
wage out here. But that's okay, Like I love doing this,

1780
01:54:15.159 --> 01:54:17.840
I wouldn't. I wouldn't change it for the world. So

1781
01:54:17.920 --> 01:54:20.600
as long as we can keep making minimum wage, then

1782
01:54:21.039 --> 01:54:24.039
we're gonna keep doing this, okay. But I do need

1783
01:54:24.079 --> 01:54:26.279
your help. So if you have a minute, and you

1784
01:54:26.359 --> 01:54:29.239
have like a coffee a month to spare, which I

1785
01:54:29.279 --> 01:54:32.560
know not everybody does, so I'm not shaming anyone for

1786
01:54:32.680 --> 01:54:36.479
not donating. Just listening truly means the world to me.

1787
01:54:37.199 --> 01:54:40.920
But if you do have that extra fiver, just consider it.

1788
01:54:41.079 --> 01:54:45.560
Just think about it. Patreon dot com slash tapes from

1789
01:54:45.640 --> 01:54:49.560
the Dark Side. I'll also throw our PayPal link in

1790
01:54:49.680 --> 01:54:54.279
the show notes real quick. We're going to thank all

1791
01:54:54.319 --> 01:54:57.680
of our new Patreon members. It may sound like I'm

1792
01:54:57.720 --> 01:55:00.119
reading a ton of names, which I am, but we

1793
01:55:00.159 --> 01:55:02.680
get a lot of people who cancel each month, because

1794
01:55:02.720 --> 01:55:05.800
that's just how the world is, right, not everybody. You

1795
01:55:05.840 --> 01:55:09.199
can't sign up for all the frickin' subscriptions which I get.

1796
01:55:09.560 --> 01:55:12.039
People come, people go. That's the other thing. If you join,

1797
01:55:12.279 --> 01:55:15.479
don't be afraid if you have to cancel. Yes, I

1798
01:55:15.479 --> 01:55:19.560
would prefer everybody to sign up and never cancel. But

1799
01:55:19.640 --> 01:55:23.119
if you have to, totally understandable if you can only

1800
01:55:23.520 --> 01:55:25.840
join for one month and then you got a jet

1801
01:55:25.880 --> 01:55:28.279
and come back later when you hit the lottery. Our

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newest Darksiders are Kim Wyndham, Aaron Cooper, Swore, Jacob Stephanie Rodriguez,

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appreciate our international listeners. Thank you. Farm Junkie, Dustin Kimball,

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And we have three new one year Darksiders which you

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you join for one year. So thank you to Deborah Siegel,

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Amber and Michelle Meyer. We actually I had no new

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our existing dark Stars and a shout out to you

1817
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1820
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We're now offering a free mug for all of our

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becoming a dark Star today. Thank you to our existing

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1826
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Rice Jesse Bateman, Mariah, Monique Wilkinson, Teddy Redmond, Jason Irvin,

1827
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Jessica Cooper, Fiona Gibson, Sun Dean Joyce, Loveless, Mallory Bitterman,

1828
01:58:04.560 --> 01:58:11.479
Santana Savine, Vanessa Miller, Jonathan Cox, Gina oy Bunco, Tyler, Ernster,

1829
01:58:12.199 --> 01:58:19.479
Pencil Junkie, Sherry Sly, Shelley Jones, Fran Alexis, Kathleen and

1830
01:58:19.520 --> 01:58:24.000
Greg b. Thank you to twenty six hundred who let

1831
01:58:24.079 --> 01:58:26.479
us adapt to one of his songs for our main theme.

1832
01:58:27.079 --> 01:58:30.920
Thank you to Augusta Trevororam who has provided music for

1833
01:58:31.000 --> 01:58:35.359
this season and for all of our seasons. And before

1834
01:58:35.439 --> 01:58:37.640
we go for this week, I want to play you

1835
01:58:37.760 --> 01:58:41.119
a clip from the phone calls that we've been playing

1836
01:58:41.319 --> 01:58:46.279
all this season between Chandler and his now ex girlfriend

1837
01:58:46.399 --> 01:58:50.279
Catherine Melender. We opened this season with a phone call,

1838
01:58:50.640 --> 01:58:53.680
and I think we'll close this season with a phone call.

1839
01:58:54.119 --> 01:58:59.399
This is the last known existing recording that's public record

1840
01:58:59.600 --> 01:59:03.560
between the two, and as I said to Wallace in

1841
01:59:03.640 --> 01:59:07.439
the interview today, it seemed like this phone call ended

1842
01:59:07.479 --> 01:59:10.960
on good terms. So I'm not sure if they really

1843
01:59:11.000 --> 01:59:14.279
did break up through a text message or what I

1844
01:59:14.359 --> 01:59:18.119
suspect is there are probably recordings that were not released,

1845
01:59:18.439 --> 01:59:23.560
Perhaps deemed not for public interest by whoever lord's over

1846
01:59:23.600 --> 01:59:26.920
that decision. The rough date of this phone call is

1847
01:59:27.039 --> 01:59:31.199
two months pre trial, which would have been November of

1848
01:59:31.239 --> 01:59:34.680
two thousand and twenty one. And you may have heard

1849
01:59:35.039 --> 01:59:39.560
some of this footage before, because when I've played portions

1850
01:59:39.640 --> 01:59:43.279
of these phone calls, I've chopped up and mixed some

1851
01:59:43.439 --> 01:59:46.039
of it one because it's kind of hard to hear.

1852
01:59:46.239 --> 01:59:49.760
So i'll do that again just from a technical standpoint,

1853
01:59:49.880 --> 01:59:53.039
but also some of the call is just boring to me.

1854
01:59:53.399 --> 01:59:56.279
But this last one, I think I'll play this full

1855
01:59:56.560 --> 02:00:00.039
phone call the very last time that we know he

1856
02:00:00.800 --> 02:00:02.520
that Chandler and Kat spoke.

1857
02:00:13.640 --> 02:00:19.600
Please hold hello. This is a call from Chandler Holderson,

1858
02:00:21.640 --> 02:00:29.159
an inmate from the Dane County Jail. Hello, good morning, annoying.

1859
02:00:32.520 --> 02:00:35.520
They're yelling right as you pick up. It's crazy how

1860
02:00:35.560 --> 02:00:36.920
it always happens that way.

1861
02:00:39.159 --> 02:00:40.760
They're like, what's annoyed Chandler today?

1862
02:00:42.840 --> 02:00:43.760
Exactly how it is?

1863
02:00:46.560 --> 02:00:47.279
Well? How are you?

1864
02:00:47.720 --> 02:00:48.800
I'm okay? How are you?

1865
02:00:49.640 --> 02:00:51.359
I'm okay? Just do dogs?

1866
02:00:51.760 --> 02:00:54.760
Oh that's good. The huskies are the chewy and.

1867
02:00:55.359 --> 02:00:59.800
Nothing not husky, so I found out the Pomeranian husky misses.

1868
02:01:00.039 --> 02:01:03.560
But they're like big. So I'm like, I thought they

1869
02:01:03.560 --> 02:01:05.800
would be really small like Chewi sides, but they're not.

1870
02:01:07.960 --> 02:01:08.720
It's kind of cool.

1871
02:01:09.720 --> 02:01:13.960
Yeah, they the other side. They're so funny and they

1872
02:01:13.960 --> 02:01:16.560
all sleep on the bed with me. But it's like

1873
02:01:17.159 --> 02:01:19.159
a twin xcel bed, so it's not big.

1874
02:01:21.079 --> 02:01:23.359
I knew someone in Plymouth that had one of those

1875
02:01:24.039 --> 02:01:25.560
Pomeranian husky nixes.

1876
02:01:26.960 --> 02:01:30.319
Yeah, was it smaller day medium?

1877
02:01:30.640 --> 02:01:33.960
Like a fat result, Yeah, pretty much.

1878
02:01:34.439 --> 02:01:39.600
That's fella and she has some big paws mm hmm.

1879
02:01:40.079 --> 02:01:41.439
Yeah. How'd you sleep?

1880
02:01:42.840 --> 02:01:45.640
I okay, you know, I slept with the dogs. I

1881
02:01:45.840 --> 02:01:47.880
gained with Abigail a little last night.

1882
02:01:50.600 --> 02:01:51.359
I slept great.

1883
02:01:52.800 --> 02:01:53.439
You sip great?

1884
02:01:53.920 --> 02:01:54.399
Yeah?

1885
02:01:55.399 --> 02:01:56.680
Yeah, could you take a Malatona?

1886
02:01:58.039 --> 02:01:59.000
No? You need?

1887
02:01:59.319 --> 02:02:02.079
That guy would talk all night. There's like the first

1888
02:02:02.199 --> 02:02:04.079
night I've actually slept through the night because of that.

1889
02:02:04.199 --> 02:02:08.960
Dude just exhausted me to the point where he can

1890
02:02:09.000 --> 02:02:09.640
finally sleep.

1891
02:02:11.039 --> 02:02:11.239
Well.

1892
02:02:11.279 --> 02:02:14.600
Now they took him out. He's not shouting at himself

1893
02:02:15.239 --> 02:02:18.560
in his room. And we shared a wall, so when

1894
02:02:18.560 --> 02:02:20.760
you can cut himself. He'd also jump on the bed.

1895
02:02:20.760 --> 02:02:24.760
And our beds are like connected through the wall. They

1896
02:02:24.840 --> 02:02:27.479
like share bolts or something. I don't know. I'll explain it.

1897
02:02:27.520 --> 02:02:32.199
But yeah, good that he's gone.

1898
02:02:32.600 --> 02:02:35.680
Yeah, me too. This is the second time he's been through,

1899
02:02:36.840 --> 02:02:40.960
so he'll be back, hopefully gone before he gets back.

1900
02:02:42.399 --> 02:02:44.880
Is he like the one that scratched his poop off

1901
02:02:44.920 --> 02:02:46.399
his button or is that a different guy.

1902
02:02:46.720 --> 02:02:49.760
That's a different one, and that one's probably in this

1903
02:02:49.840 --> 02:02:52.159
building right now. He's just not in our block, so

1904
02:02:52.399 --> 02:02:53.000
hopefully he does.

1905
02:02:53.319 --> 02:02:55.600
That's good he was.

1906
02:02:56.840 --> 02:02:57.720
That was something else.

1907
02:02:58.760 --> 02:02:59.800
No more poop scratcher.

1908
02:03:08.199 --> 02:03:14.199
How's your giving? Thank you? How is everything lately?

1909
02:03:15.800 --> 02:03:19.560
It's been okay. I'm doing something with James and mom

1910
02:03:19.600 --> 02:03:23.640
for lunch for Thanksgiving, and spent Thanksgiving Day with the dogs,

1911
02:03:23.680 --> 02:03:24.359
and then I went.

1912
02:03:24.239 --> 02:03:25.840
To Jade mm hmm.

1913
02:03:26.359 --> 02:03:27.520
It was all at Jades.

1914
02:03:28.880 --> 02:03:32.960
Jade al their friend from high school, David, who I

1915
02:03:33.000 --> 02:03:39.199
think we met at Eastern Okay, or he was at

1916
02:03:39.199 --> 02:03:40.880
like one of the Halloween parties I went to like

1917
02:03:40.920 --> 02:03:45.920
a long time ago, right, I think it was the

1918
02:03:45.960 --> 02:03:50.319
Halloween that like I was doing the show.

1919
02:03:51.439 --> 02:03:51.960
I got you.

1920
02:03:53.359 --> 02:04:03.920
Yeah, her mom obviously, and then Candace came later and

1921
02:04:03.960 --> 02:04:06.560
so did Daria after their family Thanksgiving.

1922
02:04:08.319 --> 02:04:10.119
Very fun. Yeah.

1923
02:04:10.319 --> 02:04:13.800
Yeah, they all say hello and wish you a happy Thanksgiving.

1924
02:04:16.880 --> 02:04:17.239
Mm hm.

1925
02:04:22.359 --> 02:04:26.079
Oh was that they all wish you a happy Thanksgiving

1926
02:04:26.880 --> 02:04:34.079
and say hello, I love mhm.

1927
02:04:35.039 --> 02:04:44.760
Okay, yeah, m hmmm, not going super great lately.

1928
02:04:45.840 --> 02:04:53.119
No really, yeah, it was all your trial planning and stuff.

1929
02:04:55.920 --> 02:04:59.279
M I found you some nice books.

1930
02:04:59.720 --> 02:05:00.439
Pretty shaded.

1931
02:05:01.439 --> 02:05:08.279
Yeah, like all your socks is gone. I just don't

1932
02:05:08.560 --> 02:05:09.399
know how that's evident.

1933
02:05:09.600 --> 02:05:16.039
But oh yeah, that doesn't matter. It's just the way

1934
02:05:16.079 --> 02:05:16.359
it is.

1935
02:05:17.600 --> 02:05:19.680
Yeah. I'm not gonna ask anything. I'm just making a

1936
02:05:19.760 --> 02:05:23.359
joke about your missing stuff and not a suck sniffer.

1937
02:05:23.439 --> 02:05:28.760
Maybe someone who likes toosing little piglets.

1938
02:05:31.039 --> 02:05:37.119
M So, how did it get hurt? How did they

1939
02:05:37.199 --> 02:05:37.640
get hurt?

1940
02:05:38.800 --> 02:05:38.960
Oh?

1941
02:05:39.840 --> 02:05:46.039
I think she was running or something. And then oh yeah, yeah.

1942
02:05:48.880 --> 02:05:49.199
We talk.

1943
02:05:50.560 --> 02:05:51.880
No, nope.

1944
02:05:54.039 --> 02:05:56.039
Do you want to send him a happy thanks Giving?

1945
02:05:56.520 --> 02:05:57.079
Sex or no?

1946
02:05:57.960 --> 02:06:04.960
Yep? H He seems like he's all all four putting

1947
02:06:05.000 --> 02:06:08.119
me away, very excited to do it.

1948
02:06:08.319 --> 02:06:08.840
It seems like.

1949
02:06:11.039 --> 02:06:26.840
Mhm hm that's all right, though, well is he?

1950
02:06:27.039 --> 02:06:27.079
Is?

1951
02:06:27.119 --> 02:06:27.560
He better?

1952
02:06:28.079 --> 02:06:28.720
So that's good.

1953
02:06:30.560 --> 02:06:33.439
Rizzo's doing all right? You know, it's just usual Rizzo.

1954
02:06:34.359 --> 02:06:34.680
Mhm.

1955
02:06:35.560 --> 02:06:44.399
Over the anxiety, I'm pretty sure. Yeah, hm, I finally

1956
02:06:44.479 --> 02:06:49.439
have an excuse to wash your sweater. Severed in cat hair.

1957
02:06:50.159 --> 02:06:54.279
Oh, you should be watching it at least once every

1958
02:06:54.319 --> 02:06:54.720
other week.

1959
02:06:55.920 --> 02:06:59.640
Handler you know what, I have the sadness and so

1960
02:07:00.840 --> 02:07:01.760
I wear it every night.

1961
02:07:06.319 --> 02:07:10.520
So what are you go going on? Can I for tomorrow?

1962
02:07:12.000 --> 02:07:12.199
Well?

1963
02:07:12.439 --> 02:07:15.760
Today, like I said, I'm doing Thanksgiving lunch with Mom

1964
02:07:15.800 --> 02:07:22.840
and James tonight or tomorrow. Jade and al are gonna

1965
02:07:22.840 --> 02:07:24.840
come over because there's a hot tub and we're just

1966
02:07:24.880 --> 02:07:31.239
gonna hang out. Mhm, have like some hard seltzers because

1967
02:07:31.239 --> 02:07:38.319
they're not the biggest beer fans. Yeah, and then I

1968
02:07:38.439 --> 02:07:40.760
wrought my laptop, so I'm probably gonna watch some like

1969
02:07:40.840 --> 02:07:44.479
scary movies on there because she doesn't have like any

1970
02:07:44.680 --> 02:07:47.319
TVs with like DVD players. They're all like the super

1971
02:07:47.399 --> 02:07:48.600
flat TVs that are big.

1972
02:07:49.439 --> 02:07:55.159
Oh, I hope you because have fun. That sounds like a.

1973
02:07:57.399 --> 02:07:59.920
Yeah, you know they're really They've been really there for me,

1974
02:08:00.279 --> 02:08:04.399
like the whole time you've been gone, and very supportive

1975
02:08:04.479 --> 02:08:12.560
and saying whenever I need, is what you need? Yeah,

1976
02:08:12.800 --> 02:08:15.520
they've been keeping up on like the trial stuff for me,

1977
02:08:15.720 --> 02:08:19.520
just like Danny and Navigail. So I don't have to.

1978
02:08:22.439 --> 02:08:23.920
It's confusing it right now.

1979
02:08:28.359 --> 02:08:38.760
Yeah, Yeah, I should probably fix my hair before trial.

1980
02:08:40.520 --> 02:08:42.439
Yeah, it's gonna be live stream.

1981
02:08:43.600 --> 02:08:46.039
Yeah, oh that's fun.

1982
02:08:46.720 --> 02:08:47.119
Mm hmm.

1983
02:08:49.520 --> 02:08:54.199
Just do something. You're allowed to wear masks, so you'll

1984
02:08:54.239 --> 02:08:54.600
be okay.

1985
02:08:55.680 --> 02:09:00.520
So yeah, I'm gonna just buy a wig then wig

1986
02:09:00.640 --> 02:09:01.680
masks and I don't know who I.

1987
02:09:01.720 --> 02:09:02.920
Am right.

1988
02:09:06.000 --> 02:09:08.199
Sometimes I'm fool. Why the thing's eyes and eye rouse?

1989
02:09:08.319 --> 02:09:08.760
So maybe?

1990
02:09:10.439 --> 02:09:13.520
Oh, I don't know if you can get your name

1991
02:09:13.560 --> 02:09:15.800
omitted or something? Hopefully you can.

1992
02:09:17.279 --> 02:09:19.000
Hopefully yeah.

1993
02:09:21.720 --> 02:09:22.119
Mm hmm.

1994
02:09:22.600 --> 02:09:25.760
What else do you get anything cool happening? Do you

1995
02:09:25.840 --> 02:09:26.439
get my letters?

1996
02:09:27.840 --> 02:09:27.880
No?

1997
02:09:28.000 --> 02:09:29.079
I didn't get your letters.

1998
02:09:29.760 --> 02:09:32.079
Oh they might come today. When does your mail come?

1999
02:09:33.439 --> 02:09:33.560
Uh?

2000
02:09:33.760 --> 02:09:37.000
Kind of run new, so I'll let you know, okay,

2001
02:09:37.720 --> 02:09:41.880
fingers crussed, fingers crusted. I really like the pretty one,

2002
02:09:43.840 --> 02:09:44.600
the one with the heart.

2003
02:09:46.800 --> 02:09:51.359
Oh wait, what you got that one? M I just

2004
02:09:51.439 --> 02:09:54.239
sent it? Oh was the big one near mind?

2005
02:09:55.119 --> 02:09:55.760
Yeah? That one?

2006
02:09:56.560 --> 02:10:03.439
I Yeah, I like this. I try to h Yeah,

2007
02:10:03.560 --> 02:10:05.840
that was really hard and I only found one Paul,

2008
02:10:06.199 --> 02:10:11.039
So that's the only poem I could ever think of.

2009
02:10:11.640 --> 02:10:12.840
Is I found it in a book?

2010
02:10:13.800 --> 02:10:14.199
Mm hmm.

2011
02:10:18.520 --> 02:10:21.880
I'm glad you liked it. I don't try to find

2012
02:10:21.960 --> 02:10:25.119
some idea is to send over.

2013
02:10:26.640 --> 02:10:29.960
You like the funny ones too? To come in the

2014
02:10:30.039 --> 02:10:31.239
single to think him to come.

2015
02:10:33.199 --> 02:10:34.760
I think there's another funny one coming.

2016
02:10:35.800 --> 02:10:36.319
M hm.

2017
02:10:40.880 --> 02:10:46.720
Oh oh, and uh sometimes it'd be like that one.

2018
02:10:47.119 --> 02:10:48.720
Yeah, that was good.

2019
02:10:52.199 --> 02:10:54.359
You did you get the turtle one with the long hair?

2020
02:10:55.560 --> 02:11:02.159
No, okay, there's a turtle one with long yeah, you'll

2021
02:11:02.199 --> 02:11:09.439
get it. Okay. Today it's just thinking about the purple

2022
02:11:09.520 --> 02:11:11.119
cass and you made me on minecraft.

2023
02:11:12.399 --> 02:11:14.199
Oh yeah, that was pretty cool.

2024
02:11:15.199 --> 02:11:15.520
Mm hm.

2025
02:11:18.680 --> 02:11:21.199
Anyway, I miss you too.

2026
02:11:21.279 --> 02:11:22.159
You'll make another one.

2027
02:11:22.680 --> 02:11:24.199
Yeah, thank you.

2028
02:11:31.560 --> 02:11:35.279
Think about you a ton, Think about you a ton too.

2029
02:11:42.359 --> 02:11:45.079
Oh again, around ten pounds every month.

2030
02:11:45.000 --> 02:11:49.479
Here, you're getting ten bounds every month around.

2031
02:11:49.199 --> 02:11:52.960
Well, if I have even about five months here and

2032
02:11:53.159 --> 02:11:57.520
I'm one hundred and fifty one hundred and seventy.

2033
02:11:59.279 --> 02:12:03.479
So a zool imaged you because I don't want to

2034
02:12:03.560 --> 02:12:06.439
see but I don't want to read any articles becout

2035
02:12:06.479 --> 02:12:10.159
cry and you look a little bigger with your.

2036
02:12:11.920 --> 02:12:16.079
Oh yeah, yeah, I wear a lot of I wear

2037
02:12:16.159 --> 02:12:20.439
exls now. I like the clothes and a little bit softer.

2038
02:12:21.319 --> 02:12:27.399
So like, I only in court less than one percent

2039
02:12:27.479 --> 02:12:30.359
of my time here, so you might as well be comfortable.

2040
02:12:31.680 --> 02:12:37.399
True, sit in there for a while, was if you,

2041
02:12:37.479 --> 02:12:38.560
like you've said, in there a while?

2042
02:12:40.199 --> 02:12:43.880
We are in a very small room for a very

2043
02:12:43.920 --> 02:12:51.680
long time. We don't get wrecked anymore really, so yeah,

2044
02:12:52.239 --> 02:12:56.359
it's you pretty much sit in that tiny cage for

2045
02:12:57.800 --> 02:13:00.079
half year to a year to two years.

2046
02:13:00.199 --> 02:13:00.359
You know.

2047
02:13:01.319 --> 02:13:06.600
Mm hm m hm. Who's hearing me doing happy years? Yeah,

2048
02:13:10.520 --> 02:13:13.159
he left already a right, Yeah, he's gone.

2049
02:13:13.239 --> 02:13:15.479
He's probably already at his final prison.

2050
02:13:16.840 --> 02:13:24.039
Mm hm mm hmmm, m.

2051
02:13:26.119 --> 02:13:26.600
M hmm.

2052
02:13:26.840 --> 02:13:33.560
It's nice though, Yeah, it looks nice. Mm hmm. Snow's

2053
02:13:33.600 --> 02:13:34.039
gone though.

2054
02:13:34.760 --> 02:13:37.159
Oh it's a bummer. So he's nice when there's snow

2055
02:13:37.199 --> 02:13:38.199
and sitting in a hot tub.

2056
02:13:39.399 --> 02:13:44.199
Yeah, it'll probably snow against night or something. Mm hm cool,

2057
02:13:45.039 --> 02:13:45.840
mm hmmm.

2058
02:13:49.199 --> 02:13:49.680
Mm hmmm.

2059
02:13:51.439 --> 02:13:54.199
Lunch is gonna be one of those disgusting garden burgers.

2060
02:13:56.680 --> 02:13:59.159
Yeah, it's got better because you're a closure.

2061
02:13:59.720 --> 02:14:04.640
Yeah, it's well, instead of a cage and sausage, it's

2062
02:14:04.800 --> 02:14:08.960
just a big as hot dog. I hate hot dogs,

2063
02:14:09.000 --> 02:14:10.119
so that would.

2064
02:14:12.159 --> 02:14:12.359
Yeah.

2065
02:14:13.319 --> 02:14:15.880
And then this is the one thing that's much much

2066
02:14:15.960 --> 02:14:17.680
worse than anything else.

2067
02:14:17.720 --> 02:14:18.199
I get.

2068
02:14:19.720 --> 02:14:24.000
Colored garden burger. Sloppy Joe is all right, it's just

2069
02:14:24.600 --> 02:14:28.279
not a lot of food for dinner. You know, everyone

2070
02:14:28.359 --> 02:14:32.680
is not a fan Sloppy Joe's for Thanksgiving.

2071
02:14:34.680 --> 02:14:35.479
Thanksgiving me.

2072
02:14:36.560 --> 02:14:41.359
Yeah, so's a brick with two bean patties. I mushed

2073
02:14:41.399 --> 02:14:44.640
it together to make grief oed beans that I made brick,

2074
02:14:45.159 --> 02:14:51.399
then put Sloppy Joe on top. Redneck was on area,

2075
02:14:51.920 --> 02:14:53.920
shepherds pie, Prison Shepherd's pie.

2076
02:14:55.199 --> 02:15:01.039
Jesus. Yeah, I've heard shut this part that I've never

2077
02:15:01.159 --> 02:15:01.399
had it.

2078
02:15:01.520 --> 02:15:02.279
I believe.

2079
02:15:04.239 --> 02:15:06.800
I can make a pretty good one, so I'll make

2080
02:15:06.840 --> 02:15:07.199
it for you.

2081
02:15:08.399 --> 02:15:14.279
Okay, freedom.

2082
02:15:18.479 --> 02:15:18.760
Great.

2083
02:15:20.880 --> 02:15:25.920
I was hoping that would make you laugh. Okay, And

2084
02:15:26.079 --> 02:15:29.960
remember we used to fart on me. You're nappy, not

2085
02:15:30.239 --> 02:15:34.680
that much you fart on me. You I don't know,

2086
02:15:35.079 --> 02:15:37.079
like when we first a recording around each other, you

2087
02:15:37.159 --> 02:15:38.720
kind of help me down and just farted on me.

2088
02:15:40.680 --> 02:15:40.880
I do.

2089
02:15:41.359 --> 02:15:48.600
I just thinkly remember it. It's rough, Yeah, yeah, I

2090
02:15:48.680 --> 02:15:50.560
think it was after like I clicked up something too,

2091
02:15:50.720 --> 02:15:58.079
so I mean would be stinky, high water and sink.

2092
02:16:00.880 --> 02:16:06.439
Yeah, it's not me h m hm, you'd be special bad.

2093
02:16:06.479 --> 02:16:09.840
It can get in here. So these people do not

2094
02:16:10.039 --> 02:16:15.840
take care of themselves. Mhm, never mind, it's.

2095
02:16:15.560 --> 02:16:22.199
Just yeah, just text it. You're talking very quiet, so.

2096
02:16:23.680 --> 02:16:33.280
M tell me something, tell you something.

2097
02:16:34.719 --> 02:16:37.319
Well, I have a therapist.

2098
02:16:38.399 --> 02:16:40.719
Oh what are they telling you?

2099
02:16:43.159 --> 02:16:44.879
Nothing. They just listen to me complaining.

2100
02:16:45.000 --> 02:16:45.239
That's it.

2101
02:16:46.159 --> 02:16:50.559
Oh, they're one of those therapists where it's like self sided.

2102
02:16:50.639 --> 02:16:52.200
So I talk about what I want to talk about

2103
02:16:52.360 --> 02:16:54.799
and my complain, So it's me just complaining for an hour.

2104
02:16:56.200 --> 02:16:57.000
Nice, it's nice.

2105
02:16:58.040 --> 02:16:58.239
Yeah.

2106
02:16:58.280 --> 02:17:04.280
I do not get the one coloring pages and like

2107
02:17:04.520 --> 02:17:06.280
print of papers so you can can draw on.

2108
02:17:09.879 --> 02:17:11.559
The us see the coloring.

2109
02:17:14.479 --> 02:17:19.680
No, they're just sheets of paper. We can't have books, really,

2110
02:17:20.639 --> 02:17:24.000
mm hmm. I think it's the stuff that's there's some

2111
02:17:24.200 --> 02:17:27.680
books in the always like in these topes.

2112
02:17:28.719 --> 02:17:29.120
Mm hmm.

2113
02:17:29.799 --> 02:17:30.000
Yeah.

2114
02:17:31.319 --> 02:17:34.600
Get an innate worker that's nice enough to kick it

2115
02:17:35.040 --> 02:17:37.000
close enough to the bars we can reach and get

2116
02:17:37.040 --> 02:17:38.319
a book. It's great.

2117
02:17:40.360 --> 02:17:42.399
Yeah, mh.

2118
02:17:44.280 --> 02:17:45.799
I'm sure you read a lot of books on mind

2119
02:17:45.879 --> 02:17:46.760
some fancy words.

2120
02:17:49.959 --> 02:17:54.040
I have read a lot, yeah, and wrote it a lot.

2121
02:17:56.840 --> 02:17:59.159
Rip up my pages right away after I've finished writing.

2122
02:18:01.920 --> 02:18:03.680
Do your question mhm?

2123
02:18:04.200 --> 02:18:09.280
No, if you get them what the like? When heard

2124
02:18:09.319 --> 02:18:13.600
the pencil just like melts into the rest of the paper.

2125
02:18:15.319 --> 02:18:15.920
He wrote on it.

2126
02:18:17.360 --> 02:18:22.319
Let's throw it away mhm. I was gonna say, if

2127
02:18:22.319 --> 02:18:23.719
you did them on enough, you can throw them on

2128
02:18:23.799 --> 02:18:27.719
the sea line. Yeah.

2129
02:18:28.799 --> 02:18:31.000
The rules here is so weird that they probably take

2130
02:18:31.040 --> 02:18:31.760
me to the hole for that.

2131
02:18:33.040 --> 02:18:38.479
No, have you been to the home. But there's a

2132
02:18:38.680 --> 02:18:46.920
whole lot of loneliness. Yeah, that's a good one.

2133
02:18:50.200 --> 02:18:54.559
I'm trying to get across the street. They have a

2134
02:18:54.600 --> 02:18:57.200
little bit more room. They go to wreck once a week.

2135
02:19:00.159 --> 02:19:01.639
There's no personal cells.

2136
02:19:01.920 --> 02:19:04.840
So mm hmm. Yeah, And I mean you probably have

2137
02:19:04.920 --> 02:19:05.840
a shower with people.

2138
02:19:06.879 --> 02:19:12.280
No, they're private showers the individuals, and it's not a

2139
02:19:12.319 --> 02:19:17.799
group shower. So yeah, I'm trying.

2140
02:19:18.760 --> 02:19:21.239
So it's always the oranges that do black showers or no.

2141
02:19:22.440 --> 02:19:29.280
I never saw that. So they look like metal coffins.

2142
02:19:30.680 --> 02:19:39.319
Oh yeah, okay, yeah, orange is just been a glass.

2143
02:19:39.319 --> 02:19:43.479
It's like falls and then like but there's like plastic

2144
02:19:43.600 --> 02:19:47.360
in between them, I think, and then the curtains a coruptive.

2145
02:19:48.479 --> 02:19:51.040
But in the movie Gothica, they all just stand under

2146
02:19:51.079 --> 02:19:52.239
shower heads all naked.

2147
02:19:53.360 --> 02:20:05.000
Mhm, yes, yeah, that's that's not here. That's yeah. Oh

2148
02:20:05.360 --> 02:20:08.239
sting at them. And all the prisons as group showers,

2149
02:20:08.280 --> 02:20:10.760
they're not individual oh in.

2150
02:20:10.799 --> 02:20:14.959
The prison, yeah, I guess, try not to go to prison.

2151
02:20:15.959 --> 02:20:20.280
Yeah mm hm.

2152
02:20:26.639 --> 02:20:33.760
So, Kisten, what was it I said, kiss me? Then

2153
02:20:33.760 --> 02:20:38.280
I made a kissing sound. I found that old video.

2154
02:20:38.319 --> 02:20:40.159
You come me on and I try to be aggressively

2155
02:20:40.280 --> 02:20:49.040
kissing your camera. I know I wanted it, all right,

2156
02:20:50.319 --> 02:20:52.639
Yeah you counted to me because you had to do it,

2157
02:20:52.799 --> 02:20:55.680
but I wanted it, and so I hold it to

2158
02:20:55.760 --> 02:20:57.959
my forehead and I pretend you're kissing level with him.

2159
02:20:59.319 --> 02:21:01.479
And this is why can't have the therap business?

2160
02:21:03.120 --> 02:21:04.360
Yeah, I could really use one.

2161
02:21:07.239 --> 02:21:10.360
H Hopefully they can get you someone.

2162
02:21:11.280 --> 02:21:13.200
Yeah, I'm just something to talk to you. I suppose

2163
02:21:13.399 --> 02:21:14.040
that'd be nice.

2164
02:21:16.319 --> 02:21:18.760
I mean, can you not talk to shag you're investigating.

2165
02:21:20.120 --> 02:21:22.639
They're really busy. I don't really want to bother them.

2166
02:21:23.959 --> 02:21:28.680
M I'm sure she will give them more insight on

2167
02:21:28.799 --> 02:21:29.479
me as a person.

2168
02:21:31.440 --> 02:21:35.239
They don't have to proof, or they don't really need

2169
02:21:35.319 --> 02:21:37.000
to know I'm a good person or not.

2170
02:21:37.280 --> 02:21:37.879
They just have to.

2171
02:21:40.200 --> 02:21:40.760
Do their job.

2172
02:21:40.799 --> 02:21:41.239
I suppose.

2173
02:21:41.239 --> 02:21:44.680
I don't really if they're interested in my character.

2174
02:21:46.200 --> 02:21:46.520
M hm.

2175
02:21:47.239 --> 02:21:51.000
Trying to do it as well as I can get

2176
02:21:51.000 --> 02:21:51.440
their job.

2177
02:21:56.159 --> 02:22:03.719
Yeah, yeah, well I'm sure they still care about you, hopefully.

2178
02:22:07.520 --> 02:22:07.719
Yeah.

2179
02:22:09.719 --> 02:22:13.559
Anterny Dohl is a good lawyer from what I've heard, Huh,

2180
02:22:15.360 --> 02:22:19.239
Jorney Doll. I've heard people told me she's pretty good, So.

2181
02:22:20.719 --> 02:22:23.040
I actually haven't heard anything about her from anyone in here.

2182
02:22:23.200 --> 02:22:25.520
Everyone's seen me with her on TV, but I know

2183
02:22:25.680 --> 02:22:28.120
the younger one, Crystal Vera.

2184
02:22:29.280 --> 02:22:31.520
Oh yeah, I haven't seen Crystal areas.

2185
02:22:35.040 --> 02:22:37.440
I've heard from other inmates about her in passing.

2186
02:22:38.799 --> 02:22:42.399
Oh just Crystal.

2187
02:22:43.479 --> 02:22:46.719
Yeah, No, one actually really knows about uh.

2188
02:22:50.040 --> 02:22:51.680
Yeah, yeah.

2189
02:22:51.920 --> 02:22:54.120
She had a pretty big case in like two thousand

2190
02:22:54.200 --> 02:22:58.440
five or something huge. I guess it's side down a bit.

2191
02:22:59.719 --> 02:23:02.920
Oh, she's like a manager, so she's probably really busy

2192
02:23:03.000 --> 02:23:05.280
with other managerial things.

2193
02:23:06.000 --> 02:23:10.479
Mm hmm, overseeing all the dreams who said that she

2194
02:23:10.680 --> 02:23:11.520
was a top dollar.

2195
02:23:11.399 --> 02:23:19.159
I guess, hm, yeah, hopefully they can get my message out.

2196
02:23:20.959 --> 02:23:21.360
Mm hmm.

2197
02:23:25.200 --> 02:23:27.360
There's a bunch of pencil writing right in front of

2198
02:23:27.559 --> 02:23:28.600
where I where I stand.

2199
02:23:28.680 --> 02:23:30.360
A call mm hmm.

2200
02:23:32.959 --> 02:23:38.760
What I would say, fear coat. It's a q O

2201
02:23:39.000 --> 02:23:43.079
t H F A no f A I r q

2202
02:23:43.399 --> 02:23:45.959
O t H fair question.

2203
02:23:47.159 --> 02:23:51.680
A I r q U p H q O t

2204
02:23:52.040 --> 02:23:56.920
H no use q O t H fair calls. I

2205
02:23:57.000 --> 02:23:57.280
don't know.

2206
02:23:57.840 --> 02:23:59.680
I don't know. I've never seen a Q without a.

2207
02:23:59.760 --> 02:24:00.120
U B and.

2208
02:24:04.680 --> 02:24:07.479
Mm hmm. I'll do the square, but that's wrong.

2209
02:24:09.159 --> 02:24:15.959
It could be quote or quail, but those have views maybe. Well,

2210
02:24:16.360 --> 02:24:17.360
it's going to be a mystery.

2211
02:24:20.559 --> 02:24:27.719
Oh m hm, let me miss you, let me see.

2212
02:24:30.680 --> 02:24:32.680
I'm trying to think of an idea to draw for

2213
02:24:32.719 --> 02:24:35.040
you because I haven't. I don't have any new drawings

2214
02:24:35.079 --> 02:24:35.399
a theme.

2215
02:24:36.479 --> 02:24:37.000
Mm hmmm.

2216
02:24:37.200 --> 02:24:38.319
It's coming week, you know.

2217
02:24:39.360 --> 02:24:40.159
Draw some some dogs.

2218
02:24:40.920 --> 02:24:45.319
Dogs. I can't try things like animals. Maybe I can.

2219
02:24:45.920 --> 02:24:46.760
I'll do my best.

2220
02:24:46.799 --> 02:24:54.000
Okay, okay, draw like it was so easy to bocket

2221
02:24:54.040 --> 02:24:57.440
and muffins. Yesterday was the anniversary of us getting muffin.

2222
02:24:57.479 --> 02:25:03.559
By the way, Oh happy, she's well, happy birthday to

2223
02:25:03.680 --> 02:25:06.040
mouthin late birthday a month ago.

2224
02:25:07.000 --> 02:25:12.879
Yeah, that's totally weird, but I'm sure she knew m

2225
02:25:14.000 --> 02:25:16.200
she's still cringey.

2226
02:25:17.920 --> 02:25:19.440
I remember when she used to sleep on me.

2227
02:25:20.600 --> 02:25:24.159
Yeah, when she was really funny. I have the pictures

2228
02:25:24.239 --> 02:25:26.719
pop up in my Snapchat memories of her sleeping on me.

2229
02:25:29.799 --> 02:25:32.479
Oh gosh, when she was two. One where she's either.

2230
02:25:34.920 --> 02:25:36.319
She really thought she was a toy.

2231
02:25:38.040 --> 02:25:41.840
I think she really thought she was food, and then

2232
02:25:42.079 --> 02:25:43.639
I gave her a bone for Christmas.

2233
02:25:45.000 --> 02:25:48.840
Did you hear about Rise's heritage results.

2234
02:25:49.760 --> 02:25:51.200
Yeah, I wanted you to some border Collie.

2235
02:25:51.239 --> 02:25:51.719
I was with you.

2236
02:25:52.600 --> 02:25:57.600
Oh yeah, her family tree is a reeve.

2237
02:25:58.920 --> 02:26:00.959
That's is not true. He's too small to be an

2238
02:26:00.959 --> 02:26:01.879
actual border guy.

2239
02:26:04.159 --> 02:26:07.360
I mean she could be like just really imbress, you

2240
02:26:07.399 --> 02:26:10.680
know what I mean. That's why I said her family

2241
02:26:10.760 --> 02:26:11.520
tree is a wreath.

2242
02:26:12.239 --> 02:26:14.360
Mm hmm, Okay, I got you.

2243
02:26:15.520 --> 02:26:20.680
Yeah, it's a circle. So it's like I feel like

2244
02:26:21.280 --> 02:26:24.760
she was probably like inbread and then like just the

2245
02:26:24.920 --> 02:26:26.120
once of the litter or something.

2246
02:26:27.200 --> 02:26:27.559
Mm hmm.

2247
02:26:27.799 --> 02:26:30.879
Yeah that could be. She's also super fairl so like

2248
02:26:33.879 --> 02:26:37.360
you just gotta learn picked up traits from.

2249
02:26:37.200 --> 02:26:42.719
A yeah, mm hmm.

2250
02:26:45.040 --> 02:26:48.600
I watched Birds were Hitting h I watched Birds of

2251
02:26:48.680 --> 02:26:52.680
Prey and Harley Quinn has a hyena.

2252
02:26:53.879 --> 02:26:54.280
Mm hmm.

2253
02:26:54.799 --> 02:26:55.520
It's cool.

2254
02:26:56.680 --> 02:26:58.159
Yeah, I didn't see Birds of Prey.

2255
02:27:01.479 --> 02:27:04.760
We'll have to watch it. It's a list.

2256
02:27:06.719 --> 02:27:13.000
Okay, you were on the call for like twenty nine minutes.

2257
02:27:13.040 --> 02:27:15.959
I'm just giving you a couple of minute warnings because

2258
02:27:16.040 --> 02:27:19.680
I don't know officially. When we started the call, I

2259
02:27:19.799 --> 02:27:20.719
thought we were doing.

2260
02:27:20.760 --> 02:27:23.479
A ten minute goal and I realized it's been longer

2261
02:27:23.520 --> 02:27:24.479
than ten minutes, isn't it.

2262
02:27:25.520 --> 02:27:28.079
Yeah, it's okay, it's not. It's not a lot of money.

2263
02:27:28.719 --> 02:27:31.680
Just in case. I hope you have a great day.

2264
02:27:31.920 --> 02:27:32.319
I love you.

2265
02:27:32.639 --> 02:27:38.799
Have a good lunch should throughout the day yet should

2266
02:27:38.799 --> 02:27:40.280
I message you throughout the day still?

2267
02:27:40.399 --> 02:27:45.639
Or is this a group messaging? It's the car right

2268
02:27:45.719 --> 02:27:46.159
on Monday?

2269
02:27:47.680 --> 02:27:53.319
Yeah, me too in the picture, hm, the in the pictures.

2270
02:27:54.239 --> 02:28:00.879
Yeah, I'm still gonna find them. That's a rush pack

2271
02:28:00.959 --> 02:28:04.600
and so I kind of threw every single boxes mm hmmm,

2272
02:28:05.719 --> 02:28:08.040
like I've unpacked, but it's most even like my tats

2273
02:28:08.120 --> 02:28:14.239
and bins and like SAgs. Oh yeah, I got I haven't. Yeah,

2274
02:28:14.280 --> 02:28:16.399
I haven't been able to go through my apartment and stuff.

2275
02:28:17.639 --> 02:28:20.559
That's all right, you take your time.

2276
02:28:22.479 --> 02:28:23.440
Mm hmmm.

2277
02:28:25.239 --> 02:28:25.719
Mmmm.

2278
02:28:26.760 --> 02:28:30.479
Well the good news is we can both start ark

2279
02:28:30.520 --> 02:28:31.040
all together.

2280
02:28:33.040 --> 02:28:33.239
Yeah.

2281
02:28:34.479 --> 02:28:36.600
I don't even know if I'll get my laptop back

2282
02:28:36.680 --> 02:28:40.719
ever in my life, So it's okay. I'll never remember

2283
02:28:40.760 --> 02:28:43.120
the passwords any of my pigs.

2284
02:28:43.760 --> 02:28:52.079
So yeah, you've been wanting a new laptop anyway. So

2285
02:28:53.920 --> 02:28:55.559
you've been wanting a new laptop anyway.

2286
02:28:56.840 --> 02:28:59.959
Oh yeah, well mine, I've been keeping it a lot

2287
02:29:00.200 --> 02:29:06.639
with super glue and whatever. I'm pretty Saturday to another

2288
02:29:06.719 --> 02:29:07.840
boy at least twice now.

2289
02:29:08.639 --> 02:29:14.000
So m hm, hopefully you remember your i Cloud password

2290
02:29:14.040 --> 02:29:15.719
because we have a lot of photos on your phone.

2291
02:29:17.120 --> 02:29:20.040
I didn't like the cloud. I tried to disable it

2292
02:29:20.399 --> 02:29:22.840
as much as I could, but you.

2293
02:29:23.000 --> 02:29:27.200
Have one minute remaining. Well, we have one minute, and

2294
02:29:27.239 --> 02:29:29.000
you're a poopy butt for that. Because we have a

2295
02:29:29.040 --> 02:29:30.200
lot of photos on your phone.

2296
02:29:31.600 --> 02:29:33.840
Well hopefully we have the same ones on yours.

2297
02:29:35.680 --> 02:29:38.840
We don't, okay, damn.

2298
02:29:40.040 --> 02:29:40.959
Well hopefully you look at that.

2299
02:29:41.040 --> 02:29:44.920
Bet Oh, I.

2300
02:29:45.040 --> 02:29:46.079
Miss you, I love you.

2301
02:29:47.319 --> 02:29:48.079
I love you too.

2302
02:29:49.120 --> 02:29:53.520
That's it. Gives me to your mom. Oh, actually one

2303
02:29:53.600 --> 02:29:56.280
of one of the sheet is for your mom. One

2304
02:29:56.399 --> 02:29:57.760
small picture, so.

2305
02:29:58.079 --> 02:30:02.120
Can I read it? But can I read it? Or

2306
02:30:02.280 --> 02:30:03.000
is it just from my mom?

2307
02:30:03.399 --> 02:30:03.520
Oh?

2308
02:30:03.600 --> 02:30:06.120
It's yeah, for both of you, but it's it's a picture.

2309
02:30:06.239 --> 02:30:08.879
It's not much, but it's for your birthday.

2310
02:30:09.399 --> 02:30:12.799
Yeah, you're okay to read it. If you want a

2311
02:30:12.920 --> 02:30:14.680
great day, I'll message you.

2312
02:30:15.840 --> 02:30:19.360
I'm good, love you, love you too. I don't know

2313
02:30:19.399 --> 02:30:20.479
what it's going to hang up on us.

2314
02:30:20.799 --> 02:30:21.840
Yeah, just keep talking.

2315
02:30:23.440 --> 02:30:30.520
So thank you for using Global Telling a doc side

2316
02:30:32.040 --> 02:30:33.040
God