Nov. 28, 2024

S11, Chapter 14: Sauk City

A horrific discovery is made near the Wisconsin River...

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Season 11S11 | The Haldersons

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A horrific discovery is made near the Wisconsin River.
Episode images: https://imgbox.com/g/8mayT2ssEG

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Music:

Augusta Treverorum
https://linktr.ee/trvrrm

20six Hundred
https://20sixhundred.bandcamp.com/

Suzanne by Plan B
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-FRXwN_qVow

Nightmare by Purple Planet Music

Dark Ambient by Patrick Pederson

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Hope you all have a safe and happy Thanksgiving. :)

WEBVTT

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Mhm.

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Susanne takes you down to you can hear the most

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go violence and spin.

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Besides, then takes you.

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Down down, takes you down into a.

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Misty Tapes from the Dark Side contains descriptions of violence

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and sexuality. Listener discretion is advised.

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I think everyone has a bit of a fascination with

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the dark Side.

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I myself always loved the dark Side as well. I

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think it's something that everyone secretly longs for and wants.

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That was more apparent as to what that would.

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Be and what do you believe it was?

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Body parts looks like a foot and a leg.

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The dark Side, the dark Side, the dark Side.

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To the public, it seemed like police were out of

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ideas when it came to the remains of Krista Halderson.

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The two tips that had come in involved a landfill

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and also the pond behind the Halderson house. Both yielded nothing.

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Yet we would later find out that police were keeping

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under wraps a tip that had come in a couple

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days earlier, on July tenth, just two days after Chandler

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Holderson's arrest, and this time this tip would not be

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in vain. A woman said that on July third, in

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the morning. She was outside with her grandkid and she

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noticed someone walking on Old Highway sixty down towards Highway

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one eighty eight in Sac City. The informant, who was

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still anonymous at this point, said they thought it was

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odd this person was walking away from their car towards

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the highway. The description of this person matched Chandler Holderson,

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and the location in SoC City where the suspect was

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spotted was right near the Wisconsin River. The identity of

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the woman who made this sighting and reported it to

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police was later revealed, and she testified in court.

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My name is Jill D.

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Stefano and Jill, whereabouts in the country do you.

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Live Saint Joe, Utah?

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And do you ever have occasion to visit this area

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of the country.

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The first time I ever did was this summer?

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And what brought you over to this area?

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My daughter and her fiance live here? Whereabouts do they

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live in Suck City? Two houses away from the river? Well,

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I guess there's woods before you get to the river,

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and across the street is a large open lot that

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is not public land.

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But at the time I first got here, I thought

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it was. It all looks like public land.

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Of me.

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It's all open.

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Sure.

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And were you visiting this summer around July third?

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Yes?

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And in that day on July third, in the morning

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between eight nine am, were you outside yes? And what

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were you doing outside that day?

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Playing with my granddaughter?

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And did you see anything that day that ultimately maybe

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you were asked about from the police in this investigation.

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Yes, what did you see?

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I saw a man who was walking away from some

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cars parked at the end of the street. At the time,

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I didn't know the river was there, so he was

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parked facing the river in the woods, and he walked

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away from it, and then he walked back.

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To his car.

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And mind you, I was watching my granddaughter. I noticed him,

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but I was watching her. And then I thought he

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was walking back to meet someone, and then he didn't,

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and he looked across the street from my daughter, where

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there's a big open lot, which at the time I

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thought maybe he was looking for a hiking trail. And

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then I didn't see where he went after he went

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back to his car. I assume now the only place

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he could have gone would have been into the woods.

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What stuck out to you? Why did you remember this

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or was there anything odd that caused you to remember this.

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Actually, no, at the time, I didn't think it was odd.

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I just thought it was a guy who was going hiking.

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And when I I met my daughter later it was

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my very first day in Wisconsin, I said, is there

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hiking trails around your house? It looked like there was

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a guy there going hiking. Then she says, no, people

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don't go hiking there. They go fishing, usually down by

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the river.

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This man that you saw, if you give us a

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general physical description of him, he.

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Was about somewhere in his early to mid twenties to

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maybe early thirties.

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Not real tall, maybe five ten ish, I'd.

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Say, either a dark hair or a dark hat. I'm

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not one hundred percent sure. And he was wearing a backpack.

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You catch a and were you able to observe what

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his race was?

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He was white? Well, I assume he was white based

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on his skin color.

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On July fourteenth, twenty twenty one, after multiple sweeping searches

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of the area, police found what they were looking for.

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Ryan Caputo.

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Ryamcap Uto, how are you employed with the Wisconsin Department

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of Natural Resources as a conservation.

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Ward and on that day, what was your assigned tasks

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or duties to.

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Help out the Dane County Sheriff's Office with searching a

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piece of state property for any evidence associated with the

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with the holders in case.

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How do you search those areas areas thoroughly by.

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Walking through them and trying to stay as close as

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possible to each other to make sure that you're not

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missing anything that might be between each other.

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Okay, Just what is that area?

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How would you describe it to somebody who had never

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been there.

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Yeah, it's part of the Lower Wisconsin Riverway, So it's

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just wildlife area, a lot of trees, some open grassland

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type of stuff, and it leads up to the river.

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Pretty thick with weeds that time of year, you know,

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in July a lot of smart weed, pretty thick area overall.

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And what town is it located near?

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Well, it's located I guess in the town of Roxbury

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for the most part. I mean, there's a lot of

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different sections of it, but the biggest would be Sack City.

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Okay. And the search took place on July fourteenth.

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Yes, when it came to Krystal Holderson's remains, the prosecution

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did not show the pictures on the overhead as they

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had in the case of bart Holderson's body. Instead, they

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handed out printed booklets for the jury. Because of this,

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we don't know exactly what the jury saw, and for

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that we might be grateful, folks.

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We are doing this, I should say, the state is

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doing this in a slightly different procedure than other exhibits.

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And obviously, as you may gather, similarly to the presentation yesterday,

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I think the state intends to demonstrate a step by

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step look of the discovery, culminating in what was discovered,

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which of course becomes the most or more sensitive or

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disturbing up the photos. You'll have these in front of

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you instead of on the screen. The same admonition that

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I gave yesterday applies today. You have to be able

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to have say it said you saw it. But whether

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you then look away, close the booklet, look at the

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picture examined, that's solely up to your discretion as a juror.

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You won't be keeping the booklets. They'll be returned when

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we're finished with this exhibit. But we're anticipating that this

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is an alternate method of showing things to you that

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we're going to attempt at this time.

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Go right ahead should allow for more detail. Observation. The

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exhibit number is in the lower right hand corner. If

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you would take one and pass them on warden, I

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would ask that you look at Exhibit one twenty five

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and could you explain to the jury what picture one

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twenty five is of The.

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Picture one twenty five is an aerial photo of on

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the center of it, you can see where the body

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parts are located. That myself and Kevin Kruber, who are

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part of the search party, what we located.

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Kevin Kruber is a paramedic and was called in to

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search that day.

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There's roughly thirty people on our team with the other

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medics and the rest of the Sheriff's deputies. So there

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are photos of what we found that day when we

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were doing our woods searching.

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Why don't we move on to Exhibit one thirty three?

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What are we looking at here?

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This is looks like maybe like the first part of

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where we initially found the stuff in the pictures.

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When I approached it, I saw toes in a foot

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and part of a leg and so on, so I

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knew I had found human remains at that point.

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And at this point, did you think it was one leg,

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two legs or something?

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Else, I didn't stick around long enough to figure it out?

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Sure, and why was that?

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Because it's gross?

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Fair enough you called the medical examine.

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Correct, had notified the Sheriff's office when I had located,

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and it's theirs to take over from that point.

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My first indication in the area was the smell. A

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couple of us put some flags in the market area

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that we all came in at the same point.

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And is that an attempt to disrupt the scene as

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little as possible?

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That was our thoughts.

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Yeah, okay, how would you describe what you found?

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So it wasn't immediately apparent to what it was until

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we found the other piece that then that was more

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apparent as to what.

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That would be.

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And what do you believe it was?

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Body parts? It looks like a foot and a leg.

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In the United States of America, in murder cases, as

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with most other legal cases, we often have to rely

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on circumstantial evidence. Then using logic and common sense, can

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make a conclusion based on the evidence in a case.

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Sometimes you'll hear the line that a perpetrator doesn't literally

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commit a crime on camera, or if they do, it's

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rare because that would just be a little too convenient

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for reality, except in Chandler's case, that's almost exactly what

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we have. Remember, we have Chandler on video burning the

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heads of his parents in the family fireplace thanks to

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the security footage one of his neighbors in the help

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of Scott Koontz in a science known as reverse projection

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that we learned about in an earlier episode. With the

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discovery of Christa's leg, the situation is not quite the same,

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but it has similarities. Not a video but a photograph,

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in fact, two photographs that placed Chandler Holderson in almost

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the exact location where they found his mother's dismembered leg.

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And did a witness provide some photo graphs of him shirtless,

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kind of by a tree.

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Yes, two photos don't go anywhere.

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One of the lead detectives in the case was approached

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by a witness who knew Chandler Holderson and had two

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photographs of Chandler in the same location where his mother's

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remains were later discovered.

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What are these?

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Those are pictures of Chandler Helderson.

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In the course of your investigation, were witnesses who had

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previously been in contact with mister Holderson talked to you

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about any photographs they might have of him. Yes, And

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did a witness provide some photographs of him shirtless, kind

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of by a tree?

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Yes?

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Two photos.

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And did that witness take those photographs or did she

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just have them because mister Holderson gave him to her?

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She just had those photos. On twenty three, is this

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one of those photographs of mister Holderson that you were

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able to obtain from someone?

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Yes?

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And I guess you are you knowledgeable of who the

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photographer was?

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I am not.

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You yourself have had opportunities to see mister Halderson in person, correct, Correct,

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including in that several hour long interview we just watched. Yes.

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And does that appear to you to be Chandler Holderson?

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Definitely?

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And then on twenty four just a different type of picture.

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Yes.

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The name of the person who provided these photos to

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police was kept anonymous, and the photographer is unknown. But

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what we do know is the content of these photos.

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These photographs were shown on screen for the entire courtroom

242
00:13:39.279 --> 00:13:44.840
to see. Both of the pictures show Chandler wearing oversized

243
00:13:44.879 --> 00:13:49.440
sunglasses in a wide brimmed sun hat. He's shirtless wearing

244
00:13:49.480 --> 00:13:52.919
only cut off jean shorts. In the first photo, his

245
00:13:53.080 --> 00:13:56.000
left leg is bent at the knee, resting on the

246
00:13:56.039 --> 00:14:00.600
trunk of a tree, a kind of exaggerated Captain Morgan stance.

247
00:14:00.960 --> 00:14:04.159
A foot long machete held casually in his right hand,

248
00:14:04.679 --> 00:14:08.159
he stares at the camera with his classic emotionless stare.

249
00:14:08.799 --> 00:14:12.679
Ordinarily I would describe this as a goofy photograph, an

250
00:14:12.759 --> 00:14:16.399
early twenty something kid having fun with his friends. Yet

251
00:14:16.480 --> 00:14:19.399
knowing what we know now, the picture takes on an

252
00:14:19.559 --> 00:14:24.039
undeniable sinister air. The second picture is nearly the same

253
00:14:24.080 --> 00:14:27.440
as the first. It's framed a little bit differently, zoomed

254
00:14:27.480 --> 00:14:31.600
out to touch, and this time Chandler strikes a different pose.

255
00:14:32.039 --> 00:14:34.679
He hangs from the tree with one arm like a monkey.

256
00:14:34.960 --> 00:14:38.320
The machete is still in his hand. It's a sunny day,

257
00:14:38.679 --> 00:14:42.679
the sky a bright blue hue, and the grass radiates

258
00:14:42.799 --> 00:14:46.879
the brilliant green of spring or early summer. The weather

259
00:14:47.080 --> 00:14:50.960
is almost picturesque in these photos. We don't know exactly

260
00:14:51.039 --> 00:14:54.960
when they were taken, but likely twenty nineteen or twenty

261
00:14:55.080 --> 00:14:59.480
twenty months, perhaps years before he would commit one of

262
00:14:59.519 --> 00:15:03.519
the most despicable crimes a human being is capable of committing.

263
00:15:04.399 --> 00:15:07.440
The tragedy is that at the time these photos were taken,

264
00:15:08.159 --> 00:15:12.039
Chandler had likely just begun to weave his web of lies,

265
00:15:12.639 --> 00:15:15.840
and there was still plenty of time to change course,

266
00:15:16.399 --> 00:15:19.960
to come clean to his family, his friends, his girlfriend,

267
00:15:20.399 --> 00:15:24.440
to apologize and make amends. But as we know, that

268
00:15:24.519 --> 00:15:30.080
wouldn't happen. Instead, Chandler would enter the dark side, and

269
00:15:30.159 --> 00:15:39.919
the dark side would enter him. Let's go back to

270
00:15:40.039 --> 00:15:44.960
Ryan Caputo from the Wisconsin DNR, that's the Department of

271
00:15:45.080 --> 00:15:49.519
Natural Resources. Ryan would have some important insights into the

272
00:15:49.600 --> 00:15:53.200
tree that we see in the photographs of Chandler Alderson.

273
00:15:54.200 --> 00:15:57.679
At some point during this investigation where you showed pictures

274
00:15:57.679 --> 00:16:01.360
of a young man hanging from a tree.

275
00:16:01.200 --> 00:16:03.799
I at least remember him being next to the tree,

276
00:16:04.000 --> 00:16:05.360
I think with this foot up next to it.

277
00:16:05.440 --> 00:16:10.000
Yes, so picture one twenty three, the one leg up

278
00:16:11.399 --> 00:16:15.639
and looking around that area, did you recognize this location?

279
00:16:16.879 --> 00:16:17.120
Yeah?

280
00:16:17.159 --> 00:16:19.519
It appeared to be closer to the river from where

281
00:16:19.519 --> 00:16:23.960
we had been located at.

282
00:16:23.279 --> 00:16:25.080
Where we had found the human remains.

283
00:16:25.679 --> 00:16:28.159
Okay, and you found a tree that at least looked

284
00:16:28.159 --> 00:16:31.480
consistent with the tree pictured in exhibit one twenty three.

285
00:16:31.720 --> 00:16:33.440
Yes, I was a forester major at E. W.

286
00:16:33.559 --> 00:16:36.200
Stevens Point, so I've been around trees a little bit,

287
00:16:36.200 --> 00:16:38.039
and I was able to look at the photograph and

288
00:16:38.080 --> 00:16:40.559
figure out it was an elm tree, or at least

289
00:16:40.559 --> 00:16:42.039
appeared to be an elm tree. And then there's a

290
00:16:42.720 --> 00:16:45.240
dot or a knob on the bottom of the tree

291
00:16:45.360 --> 00:16:48.279
that's very consistent with the photograph that you just showed me.

292
00:16:48.320 --> 00:16:52.519
There warden that white tent area, the place where the

293
00:16:52.559 --> 00:16:54.000
human remains were found.

294
00:16:54.240 --> 00:16:56.000
How far away is it from that tree?

295
00:16:58.919 --> 00:17:03.279
Roughly I'd say approximately one hundred maybe one hundred and

296
00:17:03.279 --> 00:17:03.879
twenty yards.

297
00:17:04.839 --> 00:17:08.400
Up to this point, we have been admittedly somewhat critical

298
00:17:08.440 --> 00:17:11.799
of the defense. Granted, the defense hasn't had a chance

299
00:17:11.880 --> 00:17:14.839
to lay out its argument or call any witnesses yet.

300
00:17:15.200 --> 00:17:18.440
But of the witnesses called by the prosecution, there have

301
00:17:18.599 --> 00:17:22.559
been a very few cross examinations, and the few cross

302
00:17:22.599 --> 00:17:26.720
examinations that have occurred were short, one or two questions

303
00:17:26.759 --> 00:17:29.680
at most. Now we'll get to see the opposite side

304
00:17:29.720 --> 00:17:32.920
of this coin. The question that has been sticking out

305
00:17:33.000 --> 00:17:36.160
throughout this case. How do you mount a defense for

306
00:17:36.240 --> 00:17:41.400
a witness who is as categorically guilty as Chandler Holderson. Well,

307
00:17:41.440 --> 00:17:43.440
I guess the answer is you don't.

308
00:17:43.519 --> 00:17:43.880
Really.

309
00:17:44.160 --> 00:17:47.000
You try your best to attack the prosecution in any

310
00:17:47.000 --> 00:17:50.400
way you can, But this is a delicate battle. I'm

311
00:17:50.400 --> 00:17:53.960
sure we've all seen clips of a defense attorney badgering

312
00:17:54.000 --> 00:17:58.160
a witness, being overly confrontational, and that can sway the

313
00:17:58.240 --> 00:18:01.599
jury against you. Here we see the defense fall into

314
00:18:01.640 --> 00:18:04.240
one of these traps, though, I guess I have to

315
00:18:04.279 --> 00:18:07.400
credit them for at least attempting and cross examination of

316
00:18:07.440 --> 00:18:11.319
a witness, even if it fails cross examination.

317
00:18:12.519 --> 00:18:13.480
Good afternoon, Warden.

318
00:18:15.599 --> 00:18:19.799
I heard you use the word consistent when describing the

319
00:18:19.960 --> 00:18:22.720
tree in the photograph with the man and the tree

320
00:18:23.079 --> 00:18:25.920
that you found on the banks of the Wisconsin River.

321
00:18:26.079 --> 00:18:29.160
Is that right, Yes, so.

322
00:18:29.039 --> 00:18:31.920
It's fair to assume that your testimony isn't that it

323
00:18:32.039 --> 00:18:34.000
is absolutely the same tree.

324
00:18:34.599 --> 00:18:36.480
Your testimony is that it's consistent.

325
00:18:37.359 --> 00:18:38.759
It looks to be the same tree to me.

326
00:18:39.400 --> 00:18:41.000
But you use the word consistent.

327
00:18:41.160 --> 00:18:41.559
Correct.

328
00:18:42.559 --> 00:18:44.279
If that's what you're saying, then I probably did.

329
00:18:44.359 --> 00:18:47.960
Yes, you don't know for certain that that's the same tree.

330
00:18:48.359 --> 00:18:50.279
I can't say for certain that's the same tree, but

331
00:18:50.319 --> 00:18:51.920
it looks to me like it is the same tree.

332
00:18:53.079 --> 00:18:56.920
Now you can say, can you say that that photograph

333
00:18:57.119 --> 00:19:00.839
was taken very close in time to when you saw

334
00:19:00.880 --> 00:19:01.519
the tree.

335
00:19:02.720 --> 00:19:04.559
Which photograph are you talking about.

336
00:19:04.359 --> 00:19:06.960
The photograph of the young man that you compared to

337
00:19:07.039 --> 00:19:08.680
the trees in the area.

338
00:19:08.839 --> 00:19:11.039
I don't know when that photograph was taken. I think

339
00:19:11.079 --> 00:19:13.759
I had been told maybe it was like a year before,

340
00:19:14.839 --> 00:19:16.559
but I don't recall for sure.

341
00:19:17.119 --> 00:19:21.079
So your information as to when that photograph was taken

342
00:19:21.559 --> 00:19:23.720
comes from what you were told, not in your tree

343
00:19:23.720 --> 00:19:24.839
analysis skills.

344
00:19:24.880 --> 00:19:25.240
Correct.

345
00:19:26.640 --> 00:19:28.039
Can you repeat that question? Please?

346
00:19:28.279 --> 00:19:36.960
Sure the tree that you found that's consistent to the

347
00:19:37.000 --> 00:19:44.640
tree and the photograph. You don't know whether that photograph

348
00:19:44.759 --> 00:19:47.359
was taken the same year as you found that tree

349
00:19:47.759 --> 00:19:50.119
or a different year that you found the tree based

350
00:19:50.119 --> 00:19:52.279
on what you were able to observe on the tree

351
00:19:52.279 --> 00:19:52.920
that you found.

352
00:19:53.000 --> 00:19:53.400
Correct.

353
00:19:54.400 --> 00:19:56.559
Correct. Their trees don't have dates on them.

354
00:19:56.599 --> 00:19:58.680
I would not be able to see exactly when the

355
00:19:58.720 --> 00:20:02.519
picture was to everything else, So yeah, no, thank you,

356
00:20:03.599 --> 00:20:05.599
any redirect.

357
00:20:06.000 --> 00:20:10.000
Jill says that she saw Chandler hanging around the Wisconsin

358
00:20:10.079 --> 00:20:13.039
River in Saux City on July third. I want to

359
00:20:13.079 --> 00:20:15.920
remind you for a moment what Chandler was supposed to

360
00:20:16.000 --> 00:20:19.440
be doing on July third. Let's go to Catherine Mellinder's

361
00:20:19.599 --> 00:20:23.000
second interview with police. I've already played for you bits

362
00:20:23.000 --> 00:20:24.839
of it, but this time I want to play you

363
00:20:24.920 --> 00:20:28.640
the very beginning of this interview, the moment she arrived

364
00:20:28.720 --> 00:20:32.400
with her lawyer present. This is the very first thing

365
00:20:32.599 --> 00:20:36.920
that Kat decided to tell police, so that you want.

366
00:20:36.799 --> 00:20:37.640
To tell us right away.

367
00:20:39.559 --> 00:20:45.599
So when we met yesterday, when because I have been

368
00:20:45.680 --> 00:20:47.440
keeping up with the media, I haven't been watching any

369
00:20:47.440 --> 00:20:50.319
of the trials for my own mental health, and he

370
00:20:50.400 --> 00:20:52.799
was catching me up, and like, when the Wisconsin River

371
00:20:52.960 --> 00:20:57.480
was mentioned, I like we were molling over it. I was,

372
00:20:58.440 --> 00:21:02.599
and I recalled, like taking a screenshot of him near

373
00:21:02.640 --> 00:21:05.720
the Statcha River because we share snapchat locations with each other.

374
00:21:05.880 --> 00:21:08.720
M hm, And he like, wasn't responding to me, wasn't

375
00:21:08.759 --> 00:21:10.279
responding to me. He always snaps me.

376
00:21:11.680 --> 00:21:15.519
Remember that. The morning of Saturday, July third, Chandler said

377
00:21:15.559 --> 00:21:18.240
he had to do some errands, and he told Kat

378
00:21:18.359 --> 00:21:21.400
he was taking a pile of grass clippings to the dump.

379
00:21:21.559 --> 00:21:25.039
We don't know if the dump was an intentional misdirection

380
00:21:25.240 --> 00:21:28.400
by Chandler or if he was possibly just trying to

381
00:21:28.759 --> 00:21:31.880
gather his thoughts and form a plan. The dump visit

382
00:21:32.079 --> 00:21:35.720
quickly changes to Chandler saying he's going to meet a

383
00:21:35.759 --> 00:21:41.519
friend to pick up CBD. CBD stands for cannabi dial

384
00:21:41.759 --> 00:21:45.559
and it's a compound found in cannabis or marijuana. It's

385
00:21:45.799 --> 00:21:49.759
generally legal in most of the United States as long

386
00:21:49.799 --> 00:21:52.720
as it's sold by someone with a license and as

387
00:21:52.759 --> 00:21:56.359
long as the teachc content, which is the compound that

388
00:21:56.400 --> 00:21:59.160
gets you high, is under a certain amount.

389
00:21:59.440 --> 00:22:00.759
What did he say he was doing?

390
00:22:01.559 --> 00:22:07.440
He said he was running errands to get CBDA and.

391
00:22:10.440 --> 00:22:15.960
For the pain, what pain from the fall? Okay, like

392
00:22:15.960 --> 00:22:16.839
like he has a head.

393
00:22:16.640 --> 00:22:19.400
Pain, Like he was having headaches and like you know,

394
00:22:20.000 --> 00:22:24.759
he said he was having like like numbness. He wasn't

395
00:22:24.799 --> 00:22:28.640
like a brace until like not last Thursday, but the

396
00:22:28.640 --> 00:22:29.200
Thursday before.

397
00:22:29.279 --> 00:22:31.480
Sorry, Daniel, is that?

398
00:22:31.960 --> 00:22:34.200
I mean where does he does he normally purchase CBD?

399
00:22:34.319 --> 00:22:35.839
Or is that something new he was trying? That was

400
00:22:35.839 --> 00:22:36.759
something new he was trying?

401
00:22:36.839 --> 00:22:37.200
Okay?

402
00:22:38.039 --> 00:22:41.079
Was he thinking of going to Sock City to buy CBD?

403
00:22:41.880 --> 00:22:44.319
Yeah, Like we were on a call, so I don't

404
00:22:44.319 --> 00:22:47.400
remember it before there it was like aha moment, like

405
00:22:47.759 --> 00:22:50.519
I remember that and like Daniel explins it as it

406
00:22:50.519 --> 00:22:52.640
doesn't seem important, but it's definitely important that she.

407
00:22:52.599 --> 00:22:54.279
Should try your best to remember I.

408
00:22:54.200 --> 00:22:56.039
Just find it interesting because I'm wondering how many CBD

409
00:22:56.119 --> 00:22:57.839
shops he would have had to drive past to.

410
00:22:57.799 --> 00:22:58.519
Give and get there.

411
00:22:59.200 --> 00:23:02.640
Yeah, he said that's where his guy was, like, because

412
00:23:02.680 --> 00:23:03.839
they were going to give it to him for free

413
00:23:03.960 --> 00:23:07.200
or something so he could just try it out. So

414
00:23:07.319 --> 00:23:08.799
he said his guy was going to meet him where

415
00:23:08.799 --> 00:23:12.680
his location was Like, No, he was driving, So I

416
00:23:12.720 --> 00:23:15.200
think he tried it was all overcaulled like a couple

417
00:23:15.200 --> 00:23:15.759
of weeks ago.

418
00:23:15.839 --> 00:23:17.519
But I think he was trying to say like he

419
00:23:17.559 --> 00:23:19.880
was driving back and.

420
00:23:20.680 --> 00:23:22.960
So he never says he's actually there for a period

421
00:23:22.960 --> 00:23:25.960
of time where his location is by the No.

422
00:23:25.799 --> 00:23:27.960
But when you're in a car, it shows you in

423
00:23:28.000 --> 00:23:29.279
a little car driving.

424
00:23:29.839 --> 00:23:31.400
So if he was moving and would have said that

425
00:23:31.680 --> 00:23:35.079
and he wasn't, No, his location was just sitting there standing,

426
00:23:35.240 --> 00:23:39.160
and that means he's sat there initially.

427
00:23:39.440 --> 00:23:43.000
Chandler actually didn't make a mistake here. He was trying

428
00:23:43.039 --> 00:23:46.119
to keep all of his communication with Kat through text

429
00:23:46.200 --> 00:23:50.319
messages and phone calls so that his GPS location would

430
00:23:50.400 --> 00:23:54.119
not be revealed in his cover blown to understand a

431
00:23:54.160 --> 00:23:58.799
little bit about why Kat was so eager for Chandler

432
00:23:58.880 --> 00:24:02.359
to snapchat her so she could see his location. We

433
00:24:02.480 --> 00:24:06.839
need to know a little bit more about Chandler's alleged infidelity.

434
00:24:07.319 --> 00:24:12.119
Kat and Chandler had a fractured relationship. They were trying

435
00:24:12.160 --> 00:24:15.480
to work things out, as people do when there is

436
00:24:15.640 --> 00:24:20.359
alleged infidelity. But there are multiple people who confirm that

437
00:24:20.440 --> 00:24:23.680
Chandler had cheated on Cat. In fact, when I talked

438
00:24:23.680 --> 00:24:27.480
to Andrew Smith, Chandler's friend came to visit him and

439
00:24:27.680 --> 00:24:30.960
gifted him the SKS rifle. I asked him about this.

440
00:24:31.799 --> 00:24:35.400
Did he ever open up to you about cheating on

441
00:24:35.599 --> 00:24:38.599
cats or like having other girlfriends or anything like.

442
00:24:38.519 --> 00:24:42.400
That, you know what he did? Had one point when

443
00:24:42.400 --> 00:24:45.559
I got back to the States, he had said to me, Hey, man,

444
00:24:45.920 --> 00:24:48.119
there's this girl I really like, but I kind of

445
00:24:48.119 --> 00:24:51.640
fucked up. I did this. What should I do? And

446
00:24:51.720 --> 00:24:54.880
I said, honestly, man, you should just be straight up

447
00:24:54.880 --> 00:24:58.079
with her, just fucking tell her went up to that shit,

448
00:24:58.960 --> 00:25:03.279
and he said, okay, things. But I'm pretty sure he

449
00:25:03.400 --> 00:25:06.519
also went was like, well, maybe I can get like

450
00:25:06.559 --> 00:25:09.000
a voice disguiser or something and say I'm like this

451
00:25:09.119 --> 00:25:11.640
person to like prove my location or some shit.

452
00:25:11.799 --> 00:25:16.079
So yeah, I don't know, do you.

453
00:25:16.039 --> 00:25:17.400
Think that's uh?

454
00:25:17.599 --> 00:25:20.920
Because I know, he called his dad pretending to be

455
00:25:20.920 --> 00:25:25.200
one of the cool advisor or whatever. Yeah, do you

456
00:25:25.240 --> 00:25:28.519
think he was using some kind of disguiser? I mean

457
00:25:28.559 --> 00:25:30.720
it seems like he had to have been, because his

458
00:25:30.839 --> 00:25:32.000
dad would have known right.

459
00:25:31.880 --> 00:25:33.559
Away, right surely.

460
00:25:34.200 --> 00:25:38.480
Yeah, that's interesting. Oh and did you mention or I

461
00:25:38.559 --> 00:25:41.839
might be making this up, but I thought somewhere he

462
00:25:41.920 --> 00:25:45.039
might have mentioned you he was thinking about dump dumping

463
00:25:45.160 --> 00:25:47.160
cat or breaking up with her.

464
00:25:48.079 --> 00:25:50.599
Yeah, he had mentioned that to me that he was

465
00:25:50.599 --> 00:25:51.720
thinking about breaking up with her.

466
00:25:52.559 --> 00:25:56.240
Was that after he talked to you about the cheating

467
00:25:56.319 --> 00:25:57.279
thing or.

468
00:25:59.200 --> 00:26:02.119
I'm actually not quite sure. I don't know what the

469
00:26:02.839 --> 00:26:06.559
stage and this fucking grand scheme of his that started

470
00:26:06.599 --> 00:26:07.880
fucking being a part of the plan.

471
00:26:08.640 --> 00:26:09.559
Yeah.

472
00:26:10.680 --> 00:26:11.240
Interesting.

473
00:26:12.279 --> 00:26:16.799
Somewhere along where we got information that Smith and Chandler

474
00:26:16.839 --> 00:26:19.160
went for a swim on the Wisconsin River.

475
00:26:19.599 --> 00:26:21.599
That's how fur at all I was there that.

476
00:26:21.920 --> 00:26:25.119
We're okay, we're do you know where they were geographically?

477
00:26:28.319 --> 00:26:32.359
So there's this like little off road we go on

478
00:26:32.480 --> 00:26:34.599
to and then like we walk the rest of the

479
00:26:34.640 --> 00:26:35.519
way to get to the water.

480
00:26:36.799 --> 00:26:39.039
But it's like it's like a town.

481
00:26:39.440 --> 00:26:43.440
We go to a Culver's there, there's where we were

482
00:26:43.799 --> 00:26:51.160
there's like two island type thing used. Okay, and if

483
00:26:51.200 --> 00:26:53.400
you go in their backyard that you can see some

484
00:26:53.519 --> 00:26:55.319
clam shells because we found clamshells there.

485
00:26:55.799 --> 00:26:58.440
If that's the ones that are in the water, not oysters,

486
00:26:58.440 --> 00:26:59.200
I think that's ocean.

487
00:27:00.279 --> 00:27:02.799
And yeah, so you have to like park a parking

488
00:27:02.839 --> 00:27:04.480
lot and walk through a gate or anything like that.

489
00:27:05.440 --> 00:27:07.400
It's like a dead end, okay.

490
00:27:07.480 --> 00:27:10.920
And then there's like this little like rail thing okay,

491
00:27:11.160 --> 00:27:12.680
and then you like walk past then it's like a.

492
00:27:12.680 --> 00:27:15.799
Little Yeah, there's a long walk short walk to get

493
00:27:15.839 --> 00:27:16.200
to the river.

494
00:27:17.200 --> 00:27:19.079
It feels long, but it can't be more than like

495
00:27:19.400 --> 00:27:23.039
ten minutes. Chandler knows the way. I've only been there

496
00:27:23.119 --> 00:27:25.799
like maybe three times.

497
00:27:26.000 --> 00:27:26.279
Okay.

498
00:27:27.279 --> 00:27:29.039
You have to take a snap or do anything when

499
00:27:29.039 --> 00:27:32.839
you've been there, because there's a ton of d n

500
00:27:32.920 --> 00:27:34.759
R lam along Wisconsin River in general.

501
00:27:35.079 --> 00:27:35.279
Yeah.

502
00:27:36.000 --> 00:27:39.440
So I if I can get just even a ballpark

503
00:27:39.519 --> 00:27:40.200
idea where that.

504
00:27:40.480 --> 00:27:44.400
Was, so I have a picture of me, but I

505
00:27:44.440 --> 00:27:46.559
don't have a picture as a land Okay.

506
00:27:47.480 --> 00:27:51.599
It was on the twelve at five three fifty three, okay,

507
00:27:52.599 --> 00:27:56.079
And in my reflection of sunglasses.

508
00:27:55.640 --> 00:27:57.599
You can see Chandler's swim trunks Okay.

509
00:27:58.279 --> 00:28:03.160
A CBS special covering the Halderson case interviewed Alex Gravat,

510
00:28:03.279 --> 00:28:06.359
who was roommates with Chandler for two years and also

511
00:28:06.440 --> 00:28:07.279
grew up with him.

512
00:28:07.599 --> 00:28:10.680
I was roommates with Chandler for a little while. I

513
00:28:10.839 --> 00:28:14.079
called him Chaz. We grew up together, and we played

514
00:28:14.200 --> 00:28:19.640
soccer together, did Cub scouts together, and just hung out together.

515
00:28:20.079 --> 00:28:22.119
He was a great swimmer, so I know that the

516
00:28:22.160 --> 00:28:25.559
swim team really got along with him. He was a goon,

517
00:28:25.640 --> 00:28:27.279
a hooligan in a lot of senses.

518
00:28:27.720 --> 00:28:28.519
What do you mean by that?

519
00:28:28.920 --> 00:28:30.839
Yeah, I mean he would so he would play pranks,

520
00:28:30.920 --> 00:28:33.839
and he would make lots of jokes or poke fun

521
00:28:33.880 --> 00:28:37.079
at people. He was a relatively attractive guy. I mean

522
00:28:37.200 --> 00:28:39.640
he looked good. He had great hair, he kept up

523
00:28:39.680 --> 00:28:40.400
on appearances.

524
00:28:40.920 --> 00:28:44.559
According to Alex, when they were roommates, Chaz often bragged

525
00:28:44.640 --> 00:28:48.279
friends about hooking up with different women behind Kat's back.

526
00:28:48.920 --> 00:28:50.359
When she found out about it.

527
00:28:51.079 --> 00:28:53.680
She grilled him. She was like, are you seeing other people?

528
00:28:53.759 --> 00:28:54.759
And he just kept denying it.

529
00:28:55.480 --> 00:28:58.240
Kat had caught Chandler cheating on her at sometime in

530
00:28:58.319 --> 00:29:01.680
the past, and her and Chandler and made an agreement

531
00:29:01.799 --> 00:29:05.279
of sorts to share their Snapchat locations with each other,

532
00:29:05.799 --> 00:29:09.599
meaning that whenever one or the other open Snapchat to

533
00:29:09.680 --> 00:29:12.519
send the other one a message, it would update their

534
00:29:12.559 --> 00:29:17.519
Snapchat map, which used a GPS location. I guess this

535
00:29:17.920 --> 00:29:22.079
was Kat's way of keeping tabs on Chandler. So Chandler

536
00:29:22.200 --> 00:29:25.799
is spinning this lie about picking up CBD from some

537
00:29:26.000 --> 00:29:29.599
guy he knows in SoC City who allegedly is gonna

538
00:29:29.640 --> 00:29:32.400
give it to him for free, and he's telling Kad

539
00:29:32.519 --> 00:29:36.640
all this through text messages and phone calls, and understandably,

540
00:29:36.839 --> 00:29:41.279
she smells something fishy, so she asked Chandler to snapchat her.

541
00:29:41.400 --> 00:29:45.839
Because when you use Snapchat, when you open up the snapp, like,

542
00:29:46.319 --> 00:29:48.319
open up the app, that's when it's aid update your location.

543
00:29:48.920 --> 00:29:51.599
If you don't open up the app, your location won't.

544
00:29:51.440 --> 00:29:52.160
Update at all.

545
00:29:53.160 --> 00:29:56.920
And I was like, hey, where are you at? Where

546
00:29:56.960 --> 00:29:59.880
you at? Like you're not responding to me on Snapchat.

547
00:30:00.960 --> 00:30:01.359
And like.

548
00:30:04.599 --> 00:30:07.400
We ended up calling and he just said like he

549
00:30:07.480 --> 00:30:10.079
was in a dead zone. I was like, what are

550
00:30:10.119 --> 00:30:10.839
you doing out there?

551
00:30:11.200 --> 00:30:11.359
You know?

552
00:30:12.119 --> 00:30:14.720
I was like, are you like swimming like in the

553
00:30:14.759 --> 00:30:19.279
Wisconsin River after his fall? Like that's not safe. I'm like, dude,

554
00:30:19.319 --> 00:30:21.480
where are you? And then I asked, are you not

555
00:30:21.559 --> 00:30:24.839
snapping me? So I don't know your location? I'm like,

556
00:30:25.039 --> 00:30:26.440
did you just hang up on me? And like call

557
00:30:26.519 --> 00:30:28.039
when you're out of a dead zone, because like we

558
00:30:28.119 --> 00:30:30.559
kept calling and it kept dropping and calling and dropping,

559
00:30:30.640 --> 00:30:33.319
and he was like driving through dead zones, you know,

560
00:30:34.079 --> 00:30:37.079
and I was like, CBD. I'm like, okay, yeah, so

561
00:30:37.160 --> 00:30:42.599
it's free. Yeah, And then that was around like.

562
00:30:44.480 --> 00:30:47.720
Those for like we're around, like six thirty nine was

563
00:30:47.759 --> 00:30:49.799
I don't want care to be my number one, and

564
00:30:49.839 --> 00:30:51.559
then he said at eight fifty seven he was picking

565
00:30:51.599 --> 00:30:54.519
up CBD. And that's why I was checking a snap

566
00:30:54.599 --> 00:30:56.680
chat location because I think he snapped me around then

567
00:30:57.480 --> 00:31:01.559
because I was at home and I know you have

568
00:31:01.720 --> 00:31:05.319
pictures from that, like those days from when I gave

569
00:31:05.400 --> 00:31:05.799
my phone.

570
00:31:05.839 --> 00:31:09.119
But I just told him about it and he's like, well,

571
00:31:09.200 --> 00:31:10.000
they'll take anything.

572
00:31:10.920 --> 00:31:14.519
And that was my suggestion. As she said, she's I've

573
00:31:14.559 --> 00:31:15.000
told her to.

574
00:31:14.960 --> 00:31:17.160
Stay away from media and not talk to anybody.

575
00:31:16.799 --> 00:31:18.680
About basically she has no life.

576
00:31:18.720 --> 00:31:21.599
I've told her from the last time she saw Krista

577
00:31:21.720 --> 00:31:26.000
and Bart till he was arrested. Okay, there's just nothing

578
00:31:26.160 --> 00:31:29.039
anybody needs to know that I'm aware. And so she

579
00:31:29.279 --> 00:31:32.400
was Mulling as I was explaining, and she's.

580
00:31:32.200 --> 00:31:32.839
Like, oh my gosh.

581
00:31:32.880 --> 00:31:34.160
I pulled this up and showed me.

582
00:31:34.799 --> 00:31:36.359
She's got a GPS on the phone.

583
00:31:36.480 --> 00:31:36.720
Quick.

584
00:31:37.359 --> 00:31:39.240
It's from Snapchat. I don't know if you use that,

585
00:31:39.480 --> 00:31:43.160
but that's him by the Wisconsin River off of Golf Road,

586
00:31:44.000 --> 00:31:46.400
and that's good time to stamp on it, okay.

587
00:31:46.200 --> 00:31:46.720
In the morning.

588
00:31:47.000 --> 00:31:48.960
And then my phone always tells me what date is.

589
00:31:49.039 --> 00:31:51.759
It's July third, eight fifty eight am in a place

590
00:31:51.799 --> 00:31:53.599
in there, four minutes before, so fifty.

591
00:31:53.400 --> 00:31:55.079
Four just just the other side.

592
00:31:55.119 --> 00:31:56.759
Show them the next one or the one before that.

593
00:31:57.200 --> 00:31:57.960
Oh, it's got a.

594
00:31:58.000 --> 00:32:00.519
Date stamp showing her at her house like five minutes

595
00:32:00.519 --> 00:32:02.440
around that time period when he was at that location.

596
00:32:02.799 --> 00:32:04.480
So that's a different app though it's on the app

597
00:32:04.519 --> 00:32:08.799
Snapchat and is in my memories. And I don't know

598
00:32:08.799 --> 00:32:10.359
if you want to see picture of my friends kangaroo,

599
00:32:10.440 --> 00:32:13.920
but sure this is the kangaroo, but antipron.

600
00:32:15.200 --> 00:32:15.480
Before.

601
00:32:16.480 --> 00:32:17.759
So what do we know so far?

602
00:32:18.880 --> 00:32:23.839
One July fourteenth, twenty twenty one, police recovered pieces of

603
00:32:24.000 --> 00:32:27.680
Krystal Halderson's legs in Sac City by the Wisconsin River.

604
00:32:28.119 --> 00:32:32.000
To a witness comes forward saying she saw someone who

605
00:32:32.160 --> 00:32:35.559
matched Chandler's description on the morning of July third, in

606
00:32:35.759 --> 00:32:40.079
Soac City by the Wisconsin River. Three, Kat, Andrew Smith,

607
00:32:40.240 --> 00:32:42.759
and two other friends said they had been to Soax

608
00:32:42.839 --> 00:32:45.799
City to swim in the Wisconsin River with Chandler on

609
00:32:45.960 --> 00:32:51.799
multiple occasions. Four. Two photographs are discovered of Chandler, shirtless

610
00:32:51.960 --> 00:32:55.519
and wielding a machete, hanging from his arm by a tree,

611
00:32:55.759 --> 00:32:58.920
just meters away from where his mother's body parts would

612
00:32:58.960 --> 00:33:03.440
be recovered. Five. Kat would provide police a screenshot of

613
00:33:03.519 --> 00:33:08.480
a Snapchat map with Chandler's GPS location in Saux City

614
00:33:08.559 --> 00:33:09.920
on the morning of July third.

615
00:33:11.240 --> 00:33:13.759
Why did you take this screenshot of Chandler's location?

616
00:33:17.160 --> 00:33:18.839
I didn't know why he was there, and so I

617
00:33:19.000 --> 00:33:19.519
was curious.

618
00:33:20.240 --> 00:33:21.759
Did you know where this location was?

619
00:33:23.240 --> 00:33:23.440
Yes?

620
00:33:24.960 --> 00:33:26.559
And how did you know where this location was?

621
00:33:27.279 --> 00:33:29.279
I've been there before with Chandler.

622
00:33:31.359 --> 00:33:35.640
Moved to published five thirty two. Is this that screenshot?

623
00:33:36.440 --> 00:33:36.640
Yes?

624
00:33:37.720 --> 00:33:41.240
And that's the location right?

625
00:33:42.039 --> 00:33:42.240
Yes?

626
00:33:43.559 --> 00:33:46.519
What did you do when you saw that?

627
00:33:47.440 --> 00:33:49.759
I asked him what he was doing there? Okay?

628
00:33:51.279 --> 00:33:52.720
And where did he respond?

629
00:33:55.079 --> 00:33:57.720
He was going to pick up CBD and he was

630
00:33:57.799 --> 00:33:58.519
passing through there.

631
00:34:00.480 --> 00:34:01.440
Did you try to call him?

632
00:34:02.079 --> 00:34:02.240
Yes?

633
00:34:02.640 --> 00:34:07.440
Okay? Were you able to talk to him? Yes, Do

634
00:34:07.519 --> 00:34:09.559
you recall anything else from that conversation about what he

635
00:34:09.639 --> 00:34:11.199
said or why he was where he was?

636
00:34:13.920 --> 00:34:14.719
He was picking up.

637
00:34:14.800 --> 00:34:19.800
CBD for the pain. You don't want to tell me

638
00:34:20.239 --> 00:34:22.880
that he was picking up CBD because he was scared

639
00:34:22.880 --> 00:34:24.360
I was going to be disappointed in him.

640
00:34:28.679 --> 00:34:34.039
Chandler Holderson's trial began on January fourth of twenty twenty two.

641
00:34:34.559 --> 00:34:38.119
It would be impossible and probably a bit boring for

642
00:34:38.239 --> 00:34:41.119
me to go over every single thing that happened in

643
00:34:41.199 --> 00:34:45.000
the trial, although if you're curious, nearly every minute of

644
00:34:45.159 --> 00:34:49.159
the live stream is currently on YouTube. There was a

645
00:34:49.360 --> 00:34:54.119
week long hiatus when Chandler tested positive for COVID nineteen,

646
00:34:54.559 --> 00:34:57.559
but aside from that, most of what happened in the

647
00:34:57.679 --> 00:35:02.079
trial is what we've covered so far, and it's fairly straightforward.

648
00:35:02.320 --> 00:35:06.679
There were no curveballs. On January twentieth, the jury would

649
00:35:06.960 --> 00:35:11.360
return at verdict. They took only two hours to deliberate.

650
00:35:11.880 --> 00:35:15.360
Coming up in the next episode, we'll hear from Chandler

651
00:35:15.440 --> 00:35:19.880
Holderson himself, and there's reaction to the verdict at.

652
00:35:19.800 --> 00:35:22.840
This moment, whether or not mister Holderson wishes to make

653
00:35:22.880 --> 00:35:23.760
a statement and.

654
00:35:23.880 --> 00:35:24.639
Thank you for doing that.

655
00:35:24.719 --> 00:35:25.360
That has changed.

656
00:35:25.400 --> 00:35:28.639
Mister Holderson, would like to give a statement to your honor.

657
00:35:34.599 --> 00:35:37.480
We're not going to do a long drawn out ad

658
00:35:37.719 --> 00:35:41.400
for Patreon this episode. I'll give you a break from that.

659
00:35:41.880 --> 00:35:44.239
I'll just say if you want to support the show

660
00:35:44.639 --> 00:35:48.280
and you want some bonus episodes on some other cases

661
00:35:48.320 --> 00:35:52.280
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662
00:35:52.400 --> 00:35:55.440
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663
00:35:55.519 --> 00:35:59.400
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664
00:35:59.480 --> 00:36:02.000
for the next few days, we're going to be offering

665
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666
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667
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668
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Don't wait around because that offer will be expiring in

669
00:36:21.840 --> 00:36:27.199
a few days. Want to dedicate this episode to one

670
00:36:27.280 --> 00:36:33.360
of our new Darksiders. Her name is Caroline Edinger, and

671
00:36:33.639 --> 00:36:39.840
all of our newest Darksiders Beverly Zeibert, Abigail Blaum, Mel Martillo,

672
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673
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674
00:36:55.599 --> 00:37:02.239
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675
00:37:02.920 --> 00:37:10.559
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676
00:37:10.800 --> 00:37:17.320
and DeLaura and two yearly members Tennis Reid and Galena.

677
00:37:17.880 --> 00:37:23.119
We have two new producers, Jaye DeMoss and Brittany Lee,

678
00:37:23.920 --> 00:37:26.440
and a huge thank you to all of our producers

679
00:37:26.760 --> 00:37:32.960
who we credit each episode Ducky Crawford, Veronica Aaron Kristin, Rice,

680
00:37:33.599 --> 00:37:41.199
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681
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682
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683
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684
00:38:04.079 --> 00:38:10.880
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685
00:38:11.039 --> 00:38:14.639
Decal And again. You can find our bonus content at

686
00:38:14.760 --> 00:38:22.480
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687
00:38:22.559 --> 00:38:25.639
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688
00:38:25.719 --> 00:38:29.320
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689
00:38:29.679 --> 00:38:33.400
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690
00:38:33.519 --> 00:38:37.199
dark Side Pod at gmail dot com. Thank you to

691
00:38:37.320 --> 00:38:42.320
Augusta Trevororum for original Music in twenty six hundred for

692
00:38:42.440 --> 00:38:44.880
allowing us to adapt one of his songs for our

693
00:38:45.000 --> 00:38:48.880
main theme. For a full list of our music credits,

694
00:38:48.960 --> 00:38:54.239
you can check out the show notes. Until next time,

695
00:38:55.119 --> 00:38:58.199
try to enjoy the daylight.

696
00:39:12.840 --> 00:39:14.800
Man Boddy part, don't ever be fine.

697
00:39:14.840 --> 00:39:17.599
Remember the next time you're walking around Camden's to keep

698
00:39:17.639 --> 00:39:18.199
an eye young.

699
00:39:18.079 --> 00:39:19.559
Because you must have see a piece of a broking

700
00:39:19.679 --> 00:39:23.280
band on the bridge competing eyes. She's deading need not flying,

701
00:39:23.320 --> 00:39:25.079
I joke for the rest of his life.

702
00:39:32.960 --> 00:39:37.679
The man man.

703
00:39:45.480 --> 00:39:47.280
A dark Side.

704
00:39:49.239 --> 00:39:49.519
God.

705
00:39:50.639 --> 00:39:52.840
Correct. Their trees don't have dates on them.