Jan. 15, 2025

S11, Chapter 17: Closing Arguments

As this case winds down we have a tale of...

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Season 11S11 | The Haldersons

33% off all first time Patreon monthly and yearly memberships. Code DARK. Ends Thursday January 16 @ 11:59PM.

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As this case winds down we have a tale of two closings arguments. A clunky closing from the defense — and a razor sharp one from the prosecution.

Episode image:
https://images2.imgbox.com/16/90/9fIzDm4U_o.jpg

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Music:

Augusta Treverorum
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20six Hundred
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WEBVTT

1
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He had two options own up to his lies, stand

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up and finally tell the truth for once, or like

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00:00:09.359 --> 00:00:14.000
a coward, shoot your father in the back. And that's

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00:00:14.039 --> 00:00:15.039
exactly what happened.

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Tapes from the Dark Side contains descriptions of violence and sexuality.

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Listener discretion is advised.

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I think everyone has a bit of a fascination with

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the dark side.

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I myself always love the dark side as well.

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I think it's something that everyone secretly longs for and wants.

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We're here because of the deaths of mart and Cristal Holderson,

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and they are dead, there's no doubt about that. But

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on some level, whoever Chandler Holderson was died years ago

14
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as well.

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Yes the date July eighth, two thousand and twenty one.

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In a matter of hours, Chandler Holderson will be placed

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in handcuffs and for the first time, taken into police custody,

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charged with providing false information on a missing person's case.

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In what would prove to be the last few free

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hours of his life, Chandler scrambled to try and steady

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the House of Cards, which was swaying around him. His

22
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first mistake that day was using a non anonymous browser

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to perform Google searches such as Wisconsin dismembered body found.

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Mind you, this was before it was made public that

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Bart and Christa had been dismembered. Chandler's next move was

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to begin scrambling around his neighborhood to try and track

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down anyone who might have a doorbell camera pointed at

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his house. At this point, he couldn't keep track of

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the many lies he had told his family, friends, and

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most importantly, the police over the previous days, and he

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shuddered to think video footage might confirm the exact times

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that he had left and entered his house. We covered

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the first neighbor in the previous episode, and now Chandler

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approaches a second except this particular neighbor just so happened

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to be a retired cop, and he immediately sent something

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was off about the situation, specifically about Chandler.

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Well, being a police officer for many years. I felt

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all right. I suspected something wasn't right based on my

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observations from the day before. I saw three squad cars

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outside the Haller and Hollerson house for an extended period

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of time.

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So you recorded the interaction I.

43
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Did definitely didn't me. I think we might want he replace.

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When Yeah, we wanted to first and move over there.

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I think we met. Sorry about what's going.

46
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On, what it is, but I was wondering if.

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You your camera, you would have a writing Now does

48
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a kick up the road?

49
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Yeah? Some it does.

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Would you have any notifications from Friday morning, Kurby before

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six fifteen?

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We can check, that's not a problem with that before fifteen, Yeah,

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before six fifteen, kind of since Thursday midnight.

54
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Okay, any notifications? Okay.

55
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I my wife is one and I thought to run that,

56
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so I'll have her pull it up on the computer.

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Okay, with your name Chandler Chandler okay.

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And you do you have one brother? And I was

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gonna say when you move when your parents moved in there,

60
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I remember meeting two boys.

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Okay, what's your brother's name?

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Sure, okay, yeah, I don't know if i've met in

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interviews since Yeah, it's eight it's a while.

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Yeah, Okay, call me if.

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You need any anything appreciated, Okay, Okay.

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If you can think of anything, you give me a

67
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ring or.

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The the Just from my law enforcement background, the best

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thing you can be doing is being in constant contact

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with the detective. That's a signed to the case. If

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I was you, I would be lighting this phone up.

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What's going on?

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Where things have?

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You know?

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Just being in constant contact, they're gonna well, and the officers.

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Know where your parents work.

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Okay, so they're doing their trust me, they're doing what

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their jobs are, so that should all be covered.

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And then's I would it all just say?

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In contact with the cops, they're going to buy us

81
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for more information that they have questions from the answer

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the questions whatever you've been doing of assistance.

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When Chandler returned to his house after his visit with

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the retired cop, he was no less unnerved. He sensed

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his neighbors suspected something, and now he knew they had

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already turned over whatever footage they had to police. It

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was only a matter of time before police would be

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able to track the exact day in times he had

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entered and left his home. Would they be able to

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pin down exactly when he had purchased the ice from

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the gas station or the tarp from the hardware store.

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What about the times he had left the house to

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scatter his parents' dismembered bodies across Madison and the surrounding counties.

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Chandler entered a fit of full on paranoia, except can

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you really call it paranoia when it's true? This was

96
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more like a reckoning. Chandler paces methodically back and forth

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across the wooden living room floorboards of what used to

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be the Halderson family home, except precisely one half of

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that family no longer exists. He stops every few minutes

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to peer out the front living room blinds at two

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squad cars parked outside his house. And then Chandler does

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what any good died in the wool narcissist might do.

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He calls the police, specifically the lead detective in the case,

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and demanded to know what was going on.

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We're looking, hus I got two squads parked right outside

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of my house. They're not really camvushin, they're just kind

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of sitting there.

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Everything all right, Yeah, I mean they're in the area

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doing canvas scene and they're also probably doing a shift

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change right now. I'll getting our second shift crew on

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around three three thirty.

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Oh there's poor now, something going on that we need

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to know.

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Well, they're probably doing reports, they're probably doing shift change.

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You know, they've been going around trying to get older neighbors.

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So I'm wondering if they're in the area trying to

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catch people know that they're coming home from work. I'm

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not sure. I haven't talked to any of them in

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just a little while.

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All right, Well, any news, brother, I haven't heard from him.

121
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No, As far as I know, they're still on their

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way up north a couple hour drives.

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So he's probably halfway into it, right.

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Uh, yeah, I suppose about.

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Yeah, any news on your end at all? Have you

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gotten any phone calls, text messages, gotten.

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Any messages over them from concerned parents? I can't. There's

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no mail, I got it. There's a hole on my mail.

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Okay?

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Is that that normal?

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I are you guys getting it at least?

132
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No, we don't put a hold on people's mail. I've

133
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never heard of that happening before.

134
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There's a hold on my mail. There's a ticket in there.

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All mail held at the station, is what it says.

136
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Okay, Yeah, nothing done by us, that's for sure.

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Is that really my medical bills?

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Yeah?

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No, we wouldn't put a hold on people's mail, and

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typically only the people that live at the address can

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do that.

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Did your parents put a hold on the mail. Does

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it say who put the hold on the mill?

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Can you go check? I suppose.

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Do you know of anything?

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So, I don't know. It's kind of stressful. Sorry.

147
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So there's nothing new going on, not that I'm aware of.

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All right, Yeah, who's there there?

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You're at home?

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Story obviously because you're saying the outside, who's there with you?

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Yeah? No, I'm not with me?

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Four squads?

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Hi?

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Okay? Who was just talking in the background?

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Cat? Yeah, okay, so we're with me?

156
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Oh okay, okay, No, I mean I can definitely give

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you a call or message you.

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I guess, depending what time are you planning on going

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to dinner? I'm not sure, but okay.

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Pretty soon here. Any news about that blue house with

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the big cameras.

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The blue house with the big cameras? Is that the

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one across the street.

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Yeah, across the street kind of in the corner. It's

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a newer house.

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I haven't got to stop by the house.

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Yeah.

168
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I have a detective that's getting footage from the area.

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I don't know exactly which houses he's gotten video from.

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Oh, but yeah, you're downloaded all of it and already have.

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It at IP.

172
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Okay, so he's probably reviewing it now. Yeah, it takes

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time to go through those things. He figured going fast

174
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forward so much. All right, all right, well, I'll give

175
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you a holler if anything pops up, you know, and

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I'll give a call around and just kind of get

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a briefing from people up in the area.

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Yeah, I appreciate that.

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Okay, thanks Chandler, Thank you, Mike.

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Despite what you just heard, Detective Brian Schunk tell Chandler,

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the police were not there simply for a shift change.

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They were there to take Chandler and Cat downtown for questioning.

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As they might say, they're not formally arrested, they're not

184
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even handcuffed. But as Chandler sits in the back of

185
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a squad car alone Kat is in a separate vehicle,

186
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he feels his control over the situation fading into oblivion.

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I believe it's at this very moment that Chandler realizes

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he might have just reached the end of the line

189
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and this might be one of his last car rides

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he ever takes as a freeman.

191
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Luckily, tell me something, I honestly don't know anything.

192
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Do you think they're okay that they're doing this?

193
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Yeah, I haven't heard anything.

194
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I was out here earlier walking around doing the canvassing stuff.

195
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And that's basically what I've been doing.

196
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Up to.

197
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Officer, Yeah, what are they up to?

198
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You hear that?

199
00:11:34.279 --> 00:11:37.360
What are they up to?

200
00:11:39.600 --> 00:11:39.759
You know?

201
00:11:39.879 --> 00:11:42.000
They they went into the house.

202
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To go to the policies.

203
00:11:44.279 --> 00:11:54.960
They think you just went behind it. Did you just

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call me a suspect? One subject?

205
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Right now?

206
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We have a family.

207
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As the police take Chandler away to the station, they

208
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execute a warrant on his house and find numerous incriminating

209
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pieces of evidence. A number of key items are found

210
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in the garage which we have yet to discuss. Inside

211
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a pair of shoes in the Holderson family garage wrapped

212
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up in tinfoil. This is what police found.

213
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It that was wrapped in foil.

214
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This is then myself opening this foil wrapped item. We

215
00:12:45.120 --> 00:12:50.360
can see now Bart Helderson's Wisconsin issued photo driver's license,

216
00:12:50.720 --> 00:12:54.759
and we can see the Apple iPhone that is located

217
00:12:54.840 --> 00:12:56.279
underneath the driver's license.

218
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What is three point fifty one display?

219
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We can see Christa's Wisconsin driver's license and an additional phone.

220
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So both phones and driver's license were wrapped together in

221
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the same packaging.

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Correct.

223
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Remember that Chandler said his parents had gone up to

224
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the cabin on the fourth of July, and that his

225
00:13:18.240 --> 00:13:23.679
mother sent him a text on Saturday for forty seven pm.

226
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Krystal Holderson's phone text Chandler's phone, what does that say?

227
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Made it safely?

228
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Can't get anything through?

229
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And yes it's packed, going to White Lake today for

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the parade and we'll be home Monday night Tuesday early.

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Love you lots.

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The use of the last phrase love you lots with

233
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exclamation points that had occurred at other times in the

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messages with Krista and Chandler.

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Yes, I had that message that was supposed to be

236
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sent by Christa while she was at the cabin. According

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to GPS, was actually sent from inside the Holderson's house.

238
00:13:57.320 --> 00:13:58.200
What are we looking at there?

239
00:13:58.759 --> 00:13:59.480
July fourth?

240
00:14:00.159 --> 00:14:04.679
His phone has activity for the first time in several days,

241
00:14:04.799 --> 00:14:09.639
and it's only for a short timeframe. Christa's particular tower

242
00:14:09.720 --> 00:14:15.480
usage was inclusive of some data session records that occurred

243
00:14:15.480 --> 00:14:19.200
from eleven oh two to eleven oh four am. And

244
00:14:19.240 --> 00:14:21.480
this is also where there was an outgoing message to

245
00:14:21.720 --> 00:14:29.399
Chandler's device at eleven oh four to twenty three.

246
00:14:27.840 --> 00:14:31.279
And was that the message listed there made it safely,

247
00:14:31.480 --> 00:14:33.200
can't get anything through though, and yes.

248
00:14:33.000 --> 00:14:33.559
It's packed.

249
00:14:33.679 --> 00:14:34.440
That is correct.

250
00:14:34.600 --> 00:14:38.240
Okay, that message was sent from Windsor, Wisconsin. It was

251
00:14:38.559 --> 00:14:39.759
not White Lake, Wisconsin.

252
00:14:39.879 --> 00:14:40.519
That is correct.

253
00:14:42.200 --> 00:14:46.320
Chandler crafted that message, sent it to himself from his

254
00:14:46.399 --> 00:14:49.480
mother's phone, and then he turned the phone off, covered

255
00:14:49.519 --> 00:14:52.559
it in tinfoil, in a pair of shoes in the

256
00:14:52.639 --> 00:15:03.200
garage with his mother's and father's IDs. The prosecution's closing,

257
00:15:03.399 --> 00:15:06.960
I think, is a masterclass. But one thing you won't

258
00:15:07.000 --> 00:15:10.480
hear is that Chandler Alderson committed this crime in part

259
00:15:10.600 --> 00:15:13.320
because he was addicted to a video game. And even

260
00:15:13.399 --> 00:15:16.360
I don't think it's that simple. It's impossible to count

261
00:15:16.480 --> 00:15:19.519
all the factors that go into an individual's decision to

262
00:15:19.519 --> 00:15:23.039
commit a homicide. In Chandler's case, we know money could

263
00:15:23.039 --> 00:15:25.919
have been a motivator. We know the desire for self

264
00:15:25.960 --> 00:15:30.000
preservation was certainly a play. Chandler did not want his

265
00:15:30.039 --> 00:15:33.559
web of lies to be exposed. But it's also impossible

266
00:15:33.600 --> 00:15:36.919
to ignore that his web of lies formed in part

267
00:15:37.159 --> 00:15:40.039
to give him more time to play video games, namely

268
00:15:40.159 --> 00:15:43.679
Tarkov in Arma III. All those days that Chandler would

269
00:15:43.679 --> 00:15:45.919
wake up at six a m. And pretend to be

270
00:15:46.000 --> 00:15:48.519
working or studying in his room. He was really just

271
00:15:48.559 --> 00:15:52.440
playing video games. Anytime he felt stressed or bored, he

272
00:15:52.519 --> 00:15:54.519
seemed to reach to a video game as a quick

273
00:15:54.600 --> 00:15:58.799
fix for an uncomfortable emotion. One telltale sign of addiction

274
00:15:59.120 --> 00:16:01.440
is when an attic uses it to deal with a

275
00:16:01.519 --> 00:16:06.440
variety of issues. The drug becomes a kind of panacea,

276
00:16:06.759 --> 00:16:10.440
a cure for boredom, a cure for anxiety, a cure

277
00:16:10.519 --> 00:16:13.679
for when I'm feeling angry or sad, but also a

278
00:16:13.799 --> 00:16:16.639
reward when I'm feeling at ease or have had a

279
00:16:16.679 --> 00:16:20.559
good day. Now, we can never diagnose someone else's addiction.

280
00:16:20.919 --> 00:16:25.080
It's one of those afflictions that only the individual can diagnose,

281
00:16:25.399 --> 00:16:29.919
which makes it particularly insidious, as true addicts generally are

282
00:16:29.960 --> 00:16:33.879
in a state of denial about their addiction. Why because

283
00:16:33.919 --> 00:16:37.600
they like the comfort that the addiction provides them. I'm

284
00:16:37.639 --> 00:16:40.799
not here to convince you that Chandler was or was

285
00:16:40.919 --> 00:16:44.519
not addicted to Tarkov or any other video game. My

286
00:16:44.600 --> 00:16:47.879
only goal is to propose a motive that I think,

287
00:16:48.080 --> 00:16:52.000
in light of the evidence, cannot be ignored. Now, before

288
00:16:52.120 --> 00:16:54.720
I play for you the closing arguments, I want to

289
00:16:54.759 --> 00:16:57.840
go over some facts about the trial. We already know

290
00:16:58.200 --> 00:17:02.240
that the defense made very little attempt to cross examine

291
00:17:02.240 --> 00:17:06.000
any witnesses, and in addition to that, they did not

292
00:17:06.279 --> 00:17:11.839
call any witnesses themselves. Also, Chandler obviously did not testify.

293
00:17:12.319 --> 00:17:17.920
This is quite peculiar, especially considering how good the prosecution's

294
00:17:18.000 --> 00:17:22.519
case against Chandler was. There was also the month long

295
00:17:22.799 --> 00:17:27.000
suspension of the trial when Chandler tested positive for COVID nineteen,

296
00:17:27.279 --> 00:17:29.359
but we have no reason to believe this really had

297
00:17:29.400 --> 00:17:32.079
any bearing on the results of the trial. When it

298
00:17:32.119 --> 00:17:37.079
came time for closing arguments, there were rumblings that perhaps

299
00:17:37.119 --> 00:17:40.839
the defense would not attempt a closing argument, perhaps some

300
00:17:40.920 --> 00:17:44.200
kind of hail mary, because if the defense doesn't make

301
00:17:44.240 --> 00:17:48.680
a closing argument, then the prosecution can't make a closing argument.

302
00:17:49.039 --> 00:17:52.680
Now the judge can decide to allow or not allow

303
00:17:52.720 --> 00:17:55.920
this kind of strategy. But in the end, the defense

304
00:17:56.079 --> 00:17:59.440
did make a closing argument, a thirty minute long closing

305
00:17:59.680 --> 00:18:03.599
and which defense attorney Crystal Verra made her case that

306
00:18:03.640 --> 00:18:08.839
the prosecution hadn't truly provided enough motive for her client,

307
00:18:09.160 --> 00:18:13.640
Chandler Halderson to commit first degree intentional homicide.

308
00:18:13.880 --> 00:18:15.160
First, let me talk about my job.

309
00:18:16.680 --> 00:18:20.319
A lot of people think my job is to quote

310
00:18:20.359 --> 00:18:24.680
unquote get the defendant off on their charges, to object

311
00:18:24.720 --> 00:18:28.799
to every single question that's asked, To ask any question,

312
00:18:28.880 --> 00:18:32.279
I possibly can have witnesses to be loud, obnoxious and

313
00:18:32.400 --> 00:18:35.039
make a scene so that I can try to get

314
00:18:35.079 --> 00:18:36.000
this person.

315
00:18:35.720 --> 00:18:40.279
Off of their charges. It's not.

316
00:18:42.039 --> 00:18:46.400
My job is to make sure that they do their job.

317
00:18:48.240 --> 00:18:51.759
My job is to make sure that if they're bringing

318
00:18:51.839 --> 00:18:55.119
charges on someone, they're doing it because they can do

319
00:18:55.240 --> 00:18:58.319
it beyond a reasonable doubt. They can prove those charges

320
00:18:58.359 --> 00:19:01.200
beyond a reasonable doubt. And people don't like when I

321
00:19:01.240 --> 00:19:04.839
say those words beyond a reasonable doubt because it almost

322
00:19:04.839 --> 00:19:08.359
feels like a cop out. And if you think that

323
00:19:08.440 --> 00:19:11.000
it's a cop out, well, then your issue is not

324
00:19:11.079 --> 00:19:14.839
with me. Your issue is not with Chandler. Your issue

325
00:19:14.880 --> 00:19:18.319
is with the US Constitution that says that without them,

326
00:19:19.599 --> 00:19:22.680
you don't have me, and without me, you don't have them.

327
00:19:24.599 --> 00:19:28.000
My job is to make sure that the state, with.

328
00:19:28.079 --> 00:19:30.119
All of its powers, look they even have more tables

329
00:19:30.160 --> 00:19:34.799
than we do, that they do their job. And I'm

330
00:19:34.839 --> 00:19:38.920
going to do that job today. The first thing I

331
00:19:38.960 --> 00:19:43.519
want to address is sort of the obvious channel lies.

332
00:19:45.240 --> 00:19:48.880
He told a lot of lies. Not only does he lie,

333
00:19:49.119 --> 00:19:56.599
but he goes to extreme lengths if he will to

334
00:19:57.240 --> 00:20:01.319
keep those lies going or to cover up those lies.

335
00:20:03.119 --> 00:20:07.039
I guarantee you every single one in every single person

336
00:20:07.079 --> 00:20:10.759
in this room has told a lie, has either covered

337
00:20:10.839 --> 00:20:13.680
up that lie, or has done something to keep that

338
00:20:13.759 --> 00:20:17.279
lie going. Maybe not now, maybe when you were a teenager.

339
00:20:17.400 --> 00:20:18.279
Go back to high school.

340
00:20:18.319 --> 00:20:20.079
I'm sure you lie at your parents all the time.

341
00:20:21.559 --> 00:20:27.759
You're not on trial, so your lies are not exaggerated

342
00:20:28.680 --> 00:20:36.119
and highlighted right now, but they are here. So when

343
00:20:36.119 --> 00:20:40.839
we were going over jury selection, I asked you how

344
00:20:40.839 --> 00:20:43.119
would you feel if you didn't testify? And a couple

345
00:20:43.160 --> 00:20:45.000
of people said, I wouldn't need to hear from him.

346
00:20:45.599 --> 00:20:48.799
A couple of people said that they would treat him

347
00:20:48.839 --> 00:20:52.519
the same way they would do every witness bullshit. He lies,

348
00:20:52.640 --> 00:20:54.759
and they did a great job of making it known

349
00:20:54.799 --> 00:20:57.319
that he lies. If he testified, you were not going

350
00:20:57.400 --> 00:21:01.640
to believe anything he said. I also said that it

351
00:21:01.680 --> 00:21:03.839
was a game day decision, and most of the times

352
00:21:03.920 --> 00:21:05.160
it is a game day decision.

353
00:21:05.599 --> 00:21:06.480
This never was.

354
00:21:09.160 --> 00:21:11.119
If you heard from him, were you even going to

355
00:21:11.160 --> 00:21:15.119
believe him? You weren't, And that's fine because it doesn't

356
00:21:15.400 --> 00:21:18.359
matter because at the end of the day, There's only

357
00:21:18.519 --> 00:21:21.119
one lie that really does matter, and that's the one

358
00:21:21.160 --> 00:21:25.799
that he said about his parents missing. I'm going to

359
00:21:25.839 --> 00:21:27.400
make your life a little easier, and it's going to

360
00:21:27.440 --> 00:21:31.440
be a little unconventional. There are certain charges that I

361
00:21:31.519 --> 00:21:34.079
believe the state has met their burden and they have

362
00:21:34.319 --> 00:21:35.880
proved it beyond a reasonable doubt.

363
00:21:37.240 --> 00:21:39.119
And I get it from the beginning.

364
00:21:40.519 --> 00:21:45.519
First degree intentional homicide is a serious charge. We've been

365
00:21:45.599 --> 00:21:50.279
here for the homicides. A piece of paper that is signed,

366
00:21:50.279 --> 00:21:54.200
a formal piece of paper that's signed by Chandler to

367
00:21:54.759 --> 00:21:58.039
the Dane County Sheriff's office about a missing person's that

368
00:21:58.160 --> 00:21:59.400
clearly is not true.

369
00:21:59.680 --> 00:22:01.599
This is proof beyond a reasonable doubt.

370
00:22:03.279 --> 00:22:06.559
I want you to think about that when it comes

371
00:22:06.559 --> 00:22:08.279
to talking about these homicides.

372
00:22:12.400 --> 00:22:14.559
And I made a weird noise. I apologized, but I

373
00:22:14.599 --> 00:22:17.400
want you to think about another thing. When I turney.

374
00:22:17.480 --> 00:22:22.359
Ramond did her closing two phrases, if you will really

375
00:22:22.440 --> 00:22:22.880
caught on.

376
00:22:24.440 --> 00:22:29.440
Several times she said, we know X, Y and Z happened.

377
00:22:30.279 --> 00:22:32.400
We know that this happened.

378
00:22:33.880 --> 00:22:36.759
Pay attention to the times where she said we don't know,

379
00:22:40.359 --> 00:22:41.359
we don't know.

380
00:22:42.680 --> 00:22:48.279
I can't tell you how she was killed. We don't know.

381
00:22:49.839 --> 00:22:52.680
Whatever, And it was always in the parts that had

382
00:22:52.680 --> 00:22:57.799
to do with the homicides. When I was in law school,

383
00:22:58.119 --> 00:23:01.440
I was told that the words I don't know should

384
00:23:01.559 --> 00:23:07.519
never come from that table, because you should know. If

385
00:23:07.559 --> 00:23:14.039
you're charging people with crimes, you should know. Now, I'm

386
00:23:14.039 --> 00:23:16.240
going to walk you through the evidence that I think

387
00:23:16.240 --> 00:23:19.319
that they skipped over that matters for me in proving

388
00:23:19.559 --> 00:23:22.680
that first degree intentional homicide was not something that they

389
00:23:22.759 --> 00:23:25.079
met their burden on. I first want to talk about

390
00:23:25.119 --> 00:23:27.680
the cabin. There is a cabin. There's no disputing that

391
00:23:27.839 --> 00:23:30.119
Bart and Krista went to the cabin at least two

392
00:23:30.240 --> 00:23:32.079
or three times a year, I think is what someone

393
00:23:32.160 --> 00:23:35.720
testified to It's possible that they could have gone to

394
00:23:35.759 --> 00:23:38.640
the cabin that weekend. In fact, you don't even know

395
00:23:38.680 --> 00:23:44.039
what their weekend plans were. Certain lives mattered, certain lives

396
00:23:44.039 --> 00:23:46.480
did not. I'm going to clear up something that they

397
00:23:46.799 --> 00:23:52.440
got wrong. The evidence does not show that Bart and

398
00:23:52.480 --> 00:23:55.400
Christa knew about this SpaceX job.

399
00:23:57.519 --> 00:23:59.799
You heard from Kat's mother.

400
00:24:01.799 --> 00:24:04.839
That she knew about it. You also didn't hear that

401
00:24:04.920 --> 00:24:08.359
they knew about the scuba team, dive team, whatever you

402
00:24:08.400 --> 00:24:11.240
want to call it. Lie with the City of Madison

403
00:24:11.279 --> 00:24:16.160
Police Department. You heard it from his girlfriends, ex's girlfriends

404
00:24:16.240 --> 00:24:18.880
and Kat, you heard it from his friends, but you

405
00:24:18.920 --> 00:24:21.039
didn't hear it from people that.

406
00:24:21.000 --> 00:24:23.079
Knew Bart and Krista said that they mentioned it.

407
00:24:23.480 --> 00:24:25.640
So I want to talk about the two lies that

408
00:24:25.960 --> 00:24:29.119
the state really honed it on. Boy did they do

409
00:24:29.160 --> 00:24:31.759
a great job talking about these lies and making it

410
00:24:31.799 --> 00:24:33.079
seem like it really was a big deal.

411
00:24:33.160 --> 00:24:34.279
Let's talk about MAATC.

412
00:24:34.559 --> 00:24:37.359
First of all, yesterday I think we heard from an

413
00:24:37.400 --> 00:24:42.279
official person from MATC that said no record that he

414
00:24:42.359 --> 00:24:47.319
attended school during this time. Detective Schunk showed us transcripts.

415
00:24:47.680 --> 00:24:49.720
You saw all his grades. He did attend at some

416
00:24:49.839 --> 00:24:55.559
point during their opening and throughout the case, they made

417
00:24:55.640 --> 00:24:58.799
a big deal about this email. It was an email

418
00:24:58.880 --> 00:25:02.000
between Bart and CHRISTI. First of all, the email happened

419
00:25:02.039 --> 00:25:05.759
October tenth, twenty twenty. The jig was up a long

420
00:25:05.839 --> 00:25:07.920
time ago. It didn't all of a sudden crash and

421
00:25:07.960 --> 00:25:12.519
burn on the first of July twenty twenty one, and

422
00:25:12.599 --> 00:25:14.920
Bart knew he was onto it.

423
00:25:15.039 --> 00:25:18.519
He says, he sounds just like Chaz on the phone.

424
00:25:19.519 --> 00:25:20.640
Use your common sense.

425
00:25:21.200 --> 00:25:25.119
These email exchanges are from people with a Dotgmail dot

426
00:25:25.160 --> 00:25:28.240
com address. You want to tell me that they honestly

427
00:25:28.359 --> 00:25:32.039
thought that this was legit, or maybe they knew that

428
00:25:32.079 --> 00:25:34.480
their child was lying and they were just going to

429
00:25:34.559 --> 00:25:37.519
carry on the lie. Same with ANFAM and I use

430
00:25:37.599 --> 00:25:41.160
AMFAM colloquially, but American family in terance. It's not an

431
00:25:41.160 --> 00:25:43.200
element that they needed to prove. It's not a charge

432
00:25:43.200 --> 00:25:44.960
that they needed to prove. They just wanted you to

433
00:25:45.000 --> 00:25:48.240
know that he's a liar. And what doesn't matter. Here's

434
00:25:48.279 --> 00:25:50.759
what you need to ask yourself. What doesn't matter? Because

435
00:25:50.799 --> 00:25:54.279
according to them, that's motive. That's the reason why he

436
00:25:54.440 --> 00:25:57.599
did what he did. This house of cards, built of

437
00:25:57.640 --> 00:25:59.279
lies was crashing.

438
00:25:58.799 --> 00:26:01.680
Down, and he had nothing. You couldn't do anything, but

439
00:26:01.720 --> 00:26:07.759
he had to murder these people. Why why you don't

440
00:26:07.839 --> 00:26:08.240
know why.

441
00:26:08.279 --> 00:26:10.559
You were never told that they were going to kick

442
00:26:10.599 --> 00:26:12.680
him out of the house. You were never told that

443
00:26:12.680 --> 00:26:15.279
they were going to disown him. You were never told

444
00:26:15.599 --> 00:26:18.680
anything about why it matters. If this is going to

445
00:26:18.680 --> 00:26:21.519
be motive, If this is the reason you're intentionally killing someone,

446
00:26:22.000 --> 00:26:28.119
it better matter. There better be consequences. Kids lied to

447
00:26:28.160 --> 00:26:31.200
their parents all the time. You honestly think that he's

448
00:26:31.240 --> 00:26:34.440
complaining about things crashing down and his mind is going

449
00:26:34.480 --> 00:26:35.799
straight to well, now, I'm.

450
00:26:35.680 --> 00:26:36.680
Just going to murder them.

451
00:26:36.920 --> 00:26:40.240
There was another motive that was mentioned very briefly, but

452
00:26:40.319 --> 00:26:43.079
it was mentioned, so I'll talk about it. When Mitchell testified,

453
00:26:43.799 --> 00:26:46.920
the very last question was about a life insurance policy,

454
00:26:47.079 --> 00:26:51.359
and I believe he said that the payout may have

455
00:26:51.359 --> 00:26:54.319
been about a million dollars, and he acted confused, he

456
00:26:54.440 --> 00:26:56.559
didn't really know about it.

457
00:26:56.559 --> 00:26:57.680
It could very well.

458
00:26:57.480 --> 00:27:00.200
Be that the only reason he knows that number that

459
00:27:00.319 --> 00:27:01.359
value is because of.

460
00:27:01.319 --> 00:27:02.279
Things that are happening.

461
00:27:02.319 --> 00:27:02.559
Now.

462
00:27:02.599 --> 00:27:05.359
There was no evidence that was provided to show that

463
00:27:05.480 --> 00:27:07.559
Chandler knew that there was a policy in place, that

464
00:27:07.599 --> 00:27:10.000
he knew the value, knew enough of that value to

465
00:27:10.039 --> 00:27:12.519
do something very drastic to get that money.

466
00:27:12.839 --> 00:27:15.400
There was no evidence that he needed money. Yes, he

467
00:27:15.400 --> 00:27:15.960
didn't have a.

468
00:27:16.039 --> 00:27:19.519
Job, but nothing came out that he needed money. And

469
00:27:19.559 --> 00:27:24.400
I'm spending time talking about a motive because, as a

470
00:27:24.480 --> 00:27:28.559
judge said, they don't need to prove a motive. Motive

471
00:27:28.640 --> 00:27:31.119
does not mean intent, and I need you to understand

472
00:27:31.119 --> 00:27:36.319
that motive does not mean intent. The other important part

473
00:27:36.319 --> 00:27:39.079
that I want to focus on is this timeline. If

474
00:27:39.119 --> 00:27:43.240
you go back to the opening, the state said that

475
00:27:43.279 --> 00:27:46.200
from three PM to five pm on the first the

476
00:27:46.279 --> 00:27:49.160
killings occurred. Well, first of all, Chris, they didn't get

477
00:27:49.200 --> 00:27:53.640
home until after five o'clock, roughly around five to twelve.

478
00:27:53.720 --> 00:27:58.440
They made a big deal about this MAATC MEETINGMATC with

479
00:27:58.559 --> 00:28:01.519
Chaz Chaz MATC. You don't know if that was in person.

480
00:28:01.599 --> 00:28:04.359
You don't know what it's about other than MATC. You

481
00:28:04.400 --> 00:28:06.240
don't know if it was just a conversation that they

482
00:28:06.240 --> 00:28:06.880
were going to have.

483
00:28:07.240 --> 00:28:08.680
You don't know if it's a follow up.

484
00:28:08.880 --> 00:28:13.000
You don't know anything about it other than some kind

485
00:28:13.039 --> 00:28:16.799
of MATC chat was going to happen between bart and Chamber,

486
00:28:17.519 --> 00:28:20.279
and that was going to happen at three o'clock. During

487
00:28:20.319 --> 00:28:23.680
their closing, the state said that the neighbor smelled something

488
00:28:23.799 --> 00:28:28.000
around eight to nine pm. No, they testified that it

489
00:28:28.039 --> 00:28:32.440
was around seven o'clock that they started smelling something. So again,

490
00:28:32.519 --> 00:28:35.039
another leap that you're supposed to make is that while

491
00:28:35.039 --> 00:28:39.000
he's allegedly murdering his parents, he decides, I'm going to

492
00:28:39.079 --> 00:28:42.200
start this fire. I'm going to put some things in

493
00:28:42.240 --> 00:28:43.880
that fire. But wait, I have to go to a

494
00:28:43.960 --> 00:28:44.480
quick trip.

495
00:28:44.640 --> 00:28:48.200
Use your common sense. That makes sense to absolutely no one.

496
00:28:49.720 --> 00:28:52.519
What you have is a medical examiner to medical examiners

497
00:28:52.559 --> 00:28:57.319
that could not say the time of death. So, really, truly,

498
00:28:57.599 --> 00:29:00.559
do you know what time these alleged homicide's happened?

499
00:29:00.720 --> 00:29:03.119
You don't. Let's talk about what else you.

500
00:29:03.119 --> 00:29:03.759
Do not know.

501
00:29:04.200 --> 00:29:06.799
You do not know what gun was used.

502
00:29:07.880 --> 00:29:10.279
That medical examiner was not able to tell you what

503
00:29:10.359 --> 00:29:12.440
kind of gun, wasn't even able to tell you if

504
00:29:12.480 --> 00:29:16.599
it was a high powered rifle, just a gun. So

505
00:29:16.640 --> 00:29:19.519
whenever you don't know about something, you have to ask yourself,

506
00:29:19.559 --> 00:29:21.480
have they met their burden? Is this proof beyond a

507
00:29:21.519 --> 00:29:24.759
reasonable doubt? Because you do have examples of what proof

508
00:29:24.799 --> 00:29:27.519
beyond a reasonable doubt is those maps that we saw

509
00:29:27.599 --> 00:29:31.799
yesterday tracking Chandler's every single move, matching up with where

510
00:29:32.079 --> 00:29:34.200
the bodies were found and at the time that they

511
00:29:34.240 --> 00:29:37.400
were found. That's proof beyond a reasonable doubt. A bloody

512
00:29:37.480 --> 00:29:41.400
tarp and some tools, that's proof beyond a reasonable doubt.

513
00:29:42.160 --> 00:29:44.680
But that doesn't mean that a homicide occurred. It means

514
00:29:44.680 --> 00:29:48.680
that something awful happened, and no one's disputing that. No

515
00:29:48.680 --> 00:29:51.599
one is saying that nothing happened to Barton Christa. Something

516
00:29:52.000 --> 00:29:54.759
awful happened to these two people, And the very least

517
00:29:54.799 --> 00:29:57.680
you can say, is that Chandler reacted but you do

518
00:29:57.720 --> 00:30:01.000
not know what happened. And I know some of you

519
00:30:01.000 --> 00:30:02.720
have already made up your mind. I see it, and

520
00:30:02.759 --> 00:30:05.480
that's fine. Maybe you do think he murdered his parents.

521
00:30:05.599 --> 00:30:08.519
The question I have for you is did this state

522
00:30:08.640 --> 00:30:12.160
meet their burden when it comes to first degree intentional homicide.

523
00:30:13.839 --> 00:30:17.480
Now I don't get to come back up when I'm done.

524
00:30:17.680 --> 00:30:19.240
The state's going to come up and they're going to

525
00:30:19.279 --> 00:30:21.359
do their rebuttal and they're going to say everything that

526
00:30:21.519 --> 00:30:24.359
I said is flawed some way, somehow, or that you

527
00:30:24.359 --> 00:30:26.759
shouldn't pay attention to it. And that's fine, that's their job.

528
00:30:26.799 --> 00:30:28.839
They have the burden, they have the last say. But

529
00:30:28.880 --> 00:30:31.240
when they're talking during their rebuttal, I want.

530
00:30:31.119 --> 00:30:31.759
You to think of this.

531
00:30:32.000 --> 00:30:35.079
What if I told you that at any minute, someone's

532
00:30:35.079 --> 00:30:38.279
going to walk into that door, Someone from the Dane

533
00:30:38.319 --> 00:30:40.839
County Deputies Department is going to walk in and say.

534
00:30:40.680 --> 00:30:41.200
I found it.

535
00:30:41.240 --> 00:30:43.319
I found the video we were looking for. I know

536
00:30:43.400 --> 00:30:47.519
exactly what happened in that house on the first And

537
00:30:47.519 --> 00:30:49.079
if you're going to look at that door hoping that

538
00:30:49.160 --> 00:30:54.000
someone comes in, you have reasons to doubt.

539
00:30:54.480 --> 00:30:56.640
There are plenty of.

540
00:30:56.640 --> 00:31:01.480
Reasons to doubt that a first degree intentional homicide occurred.

541
00:31:01.799 --> 00:31:05.599
I want you to spend time on the homicides, ask yourself.

542
00:31:05.279 --> 00:31:06.920
The questions that you need to ask.

543
00:31:07.440 --> 00:31:09.440
I guarantee you that the twelve of you that are

544
00:31:09.480 --> 00:31:11.920
going to go back and deliberate are all going to

545
00:31:12.000 --> 00:31:16.759
have twelve different theories on what happened, and that's a problem.

546
00:31:17.240 --> 00:31:20.880
I'm asking you to find him not guilty a first

547
00:31:20.920 --> 00:31:22.440
degree intentional homicide.

548
00:31:22.960 --> 00:31:23.279
Thank you.

549
00:31:28.640 --> 00:31:30.720
We're going to take a quick break, and when we

550
00:31:30.839 --> 00:31:36.279
come back, we'll hear the prosecution's rebuttal don't go anywhere.

551
00:31:42.640 --> 00:31:46.000
So a lot of talk in the defense closing and

552
00:31:46.039 --> 00:31:49.440
opening about thing you say learned in law school or

553
00:31:50.240 --> 00:31:52.279
going to law school. And I think in the opening

554
00:31:52.279 --> 00:31:55.200
I heard at one point being a jury is different

555
00:31:55.200 --> 00:32:00.240
than being a person, if any that's true, but with

556
00:32:00.319 --> 00:32:03.640
law school, and I do this for a living, I

557
00:32:03.680 --> 00:32:07.559
operate in a world of common sense and not fantasy

558
00:32:07.599 --> 00:32:11.880
full thoughts of just this guy finding his dead parents

559
00:32:11.880 --> 00:32:14.839
and deciding, no big deal, let's just cut them apart

560
00:32:14.880 --> 00:32:17.079
and hide them around the state, but who knows how

561
00:32:17.119 --> 00:32:20.720
they die. I live in that world. That's the world

562
00:32:20.720 --> 00:32:22.319
you should live in too, because being a juror is

563
00:32:22.359 --> 00:32:24.079
no different than being a person. I'm like, maybe what

564
00:32:24.119 --> 00:32:27.079
you were told earlier, you're told by the judge, although

565
00:32:27.079 --> 00:32:28.480
they figured out a way to say it in about

566
00:32:28.480 --> 00:32:31.480
two paragraphs. You use your common sense and experience and

567
00:32:31.519 --> 00:32:33.799
the roles of everyday life for something along those lines.

568
00:32:34.119 --> 00:32:35.960
A bunch of lawyers got together and thought about it

569
00:32:36.000 --> 00:32:37.279
for two weeks and figured out a way to say,

570
00:32:37.359 --> 00:32:42.839
use your common sense. Tsavera just stood up here and said,

571
00:32:42.839 --> 00:32:48.559
what if this was an awful accident. Bart Holderson was

572
00:32:48.599 --> 00:32:52.559
shot in the back twice. You do not fall down

573
00:32:52.880 --> 00:32:58.039
and shoot yourself in the back twice. Bart Holderson and

574
00:32:58.119 --> 00:33:02.440
Kristal Holderson had their heads chopped off, had their arms

575
00:33:02.480 --> 00:33:08.880
and legs removed. That was an awful accident. Think of

576
00:33:08.920 --> 00:33:10.960
for a second. You heard about the bones. You saw

577
00:33:10.960 --> 00:33:14.200
those marks and the bones. Those attempts, some of them three,

578
00:33:14.319 --> 00:33:17.279
some of them ten, some of them five false starts

579
00:33:17.359 --> 00:33:21.039
is what the anthropologists called them. That is, someone on

580
00:33:21.119 --> 00:33:25.799
their hands and knees. Chandler apparently, which was just as

581
00:33:25.880 --> 00:33:28.759
was saying, I guess we're admitting to that now. They

582
00:33:28.839 --> 00:33:30.319
lied and chopped him up and hit him around the

583
00:33:30.319 --> 00:33:33.799
state on his hands and knees, some of them from

584
00:33:33.839 --> 00:33:36.880
the front to back, meaning probably could see the face

585
00:33:37.240 --> 00:33:38.160
of his mom.

586
00:33:37.920 --> 00:33:42.000
And his dad as that saw moved back and forth,

587
00:33:42.799 --> 00:33:45.759
back and forth, and you just saw the bones. But

588
00:33:45.799 --> 00:33:48.240
what's before the bones, the skin, the blood, the muscle,

589
00:33:48.279 --> 00:33:51.240
the fat, the smell that they.

590
00:33:51.079 --> 00:33:57.640
Had to produce the blood of his own parents. An

591
00:33:57.640 --> 00:34:03.480
awful accident. We heard I go days without googling things.

592
00:34:04.880 --> 00:34:07.960
I don't. Maybe you do, but I bet you don't

593
00:34:08.000 --> 00:34:11.800
google dismembered body found Wisconsin when you're crying on the

594
00:34:11.840 --> 00:34:14.719
local news about your missing parents. I bet you don't

595
00:34:14.760 --> 00:34:18.400
google woman's dismembered body found. I bet you don't do

596
00:34:18.559 --> 00:34:21.480
legal research about some other guy who chopped up his

597
00:34:21.559 --> 00:34:24.519
family members and throw him in a river. Bet you

598
00:34:24.519 --> 00:34:32.840
don't do that. This process is common sense. Miss Vera

599
00:34:32.960 --> 00:34:35.760
talked a lot about the lies. Chandler is a liar,

600
00:34:35.800 --> 00:34:37.519
and it seems like we all agree on that. Now,

601
00:34:38.920 --> 00:34:41.719
lots of people lie. I can agree with Ms Vera

602
00:34:41.800 --> 00:34:49.920
on that. The question in this case isn't who would

603
00:34:50.000 --> 00:34:52.559
do this? And maybe that's something that's gone through your

604
00:34:52.559 --> 00:34:57.239
mind here, Who would do this? Who would go through

605
00:34:57.280 --> 00:35:00.280
all this? Who would make up all these lies? Who

606
00:35:00.280 --> 00:35:02.960
would take it this far, all these fake people, the

607
00:35:03.039 --> 00:35:05.920
burner phone, the nonsense, the calls to his dad, the

608
00:35:05.960 --> 00:35:09.320
emails back and forth, the friends and family, the move

609
00:35:09.400 --> 00:35:14.400
to Florida. Who would do this? And you're going to

610
00:35:14.519 --> 00:35:17.039
leave this room. Six of you are going to go home.

611
00:35:17.079 --> 00:35:18.400
Twelve are You're going to go into a room and

612
00:35:18.400 --> 00:35:20.239
talk to each other. And you're never going to have

613
00:35:20.239 --> 00:35:24.519
an answer that question, because who would do this? In

614
00:35:24.559 --> 00:35:28.199
the common sense meaning of it, nobody does something like this.

615
00:35:29.400 --> 00:35:32.559
But that's not the role of a jury. You're answering

616
00:35:32.599 --> 00:35:36.239
a different question, which is who did this? Not who

617
00:35:36.239 --> 00:35:39.519
would do this? Because for the life of you, I

618
00:35:39.559 --> 00:35:41.360
bet before you've got that notice in the mail a

619
00:35:41.360 --> 00:35:43.119
couple of months ago saying you had to come here,

620
00:35:43.559 --> 00:35:48.920
you would say nobody. You would have said nobody. Nobody

621
00:35:48.960 --> 00:35:51.159
would shoot their dad in the back twice and kill

622
00:35:51.199 --> 00:35:53.239
their mom, lay them on the ground in front of

623
00:35:53.280 --> 00:35:59.920
their family fireplace. Take scissors and pruning shears, take a hacksaw,

624
00:36:00.280 --> 00:36:03.480
took a keyhole saw and saw off their heads, arms, legs,

625
00:36:03.519 --> 00:36:06.760
burn him in the fireplace. Over a hundred fragments of

626
00:36:06.840 --> 00:36:08.760
human bone found in that fireplace. You would say, no

627
00:36:08.760 --> 00:36:12.480
one would do this, But you got your jury summons,

628
00:36:12.960 --> 00:36:15.480
and you ended up here and you found out that

629
00:36:15.519 --> 00:36:20.360
someone did do it, Chandler Halderson did it. So those

630
00:36:20.440 --> 00:36:24.719
lies are important because you at some level have to

631
00:36:24.760 --> 00:36:29.960
grasp how this man got to that point. As I

632
00:36:30.000 --> 00:36:33.559
said in the opening statement, the murders were just a

633
00:36:33.559 --> 00:36:36.119
small piece of the puzzle. None of the things that

634
00:36:36.199 --> 00:36:39.000
happened before, none of the things that happened after make

635
00:36:39.039 --> 00:36:45.400
any sense. Got to have the murders to understand why

636
00:36:45.440 --> 00:36:48.199
he did that bizarre story for seven days of his

637
00:36:48.239 --> 00:36:51.199
parents going missing with the unknown couple. And you can

638
00:36:51.320 --> 00:36:54.440
understand the murders if you understand what happened before, with

639
00:36:54.519 --> 00:36:58.719
his bizarre actions of building up this life that wasn't real.

640
00:37:00.239 --> 00:37:04.679
Why were those lies important? They were important because it's

641
00:37:04.679 --> 00:37:08.599
all he had. We're here because of the deaths of

642
00:37:08.639 --> 00:37:12.519
Bart and Crystal Holderson, and they are dead. There's no

643
00:37:12.559 --> 00:37:15.760
doubt about that. You have most decidedly concluded that at

644
00:37:15.800 --> 00:37:22.119
this point you have seen their bodies. But on some level,

645
00:37:22.400 --> 00:37:26.559
whoever Chandler Holderson was died years ago as well, and

646
00:37:26.599 --> 00:37:29.199
what was left was this shell of a person who

647
00:37:29.239 --> 00:37:32.159
made this nonsense up, who built himself up to be

648
00:37:32.599 --> 00:37:37.800
a tech employee rescue, scuba diving guy who's going to college.

649
00:37:37.960 --> 00:37:41.360
It was all he had. It was all he had,

650
00:37:43.079 --> 00:37:46.480
and that started to unravel. Maybe his parents suspected it,

651
00:37:47.000 --> 00:37:49.480
but you listened to Bart Holderson on that call just

652
00:37:49.519 --> 00:37:52.639
about a day before he was killed. That sounded like

653
00:37:52.679 --> 00:37:54.559
someone to you who knew his son had been lying

654
00:37:54.599 --> 00:37:59.079
to him those text messages. I spoke to Omar Joe,

655
00:37:59.559 --> 00:38:02.280
I'm ready whenever you are. He didn't know what was

656
00:38:02.320 --> 00:38:06.480
going on until that moment. So when Bart Holderson finds

657
00:38:06.480 --> 00:38:10.599
out that this is a lie to Chandler whoever Chandler

658
00:38:10.639 --> 00:38:14.679
Holderson is, the whole world crumples, because if you weren't

659
00:38:14.679 --> 00:38:17.360
going to school, they sure weren't going to hire you

660
00:38:17.360 --> 00:38:19.800
an American family insurance. That couldn't have been real. There's

661
00:38:19.840 --> 00:38:24.840
no way you've got a job at SpaceX. What else

662
00:38:24.840 --> 00:38:26.960
are you lying about? Where you going all the time?

663
00:38:26.960 --> 00:38:29.079
When you say you're training for this scuba diving team,

664
00:38:29.199 --> 00:38:34.480
everything about him falls apart. He doesn't have any money.

665
00:38:34.880 --> 00:38:36.480
Remember when he texts his girlfriend he was going to

666
00:38:36.559 --> 00:38:38.519
the police, Hey can I have five dollars for a sandwich?

667
00:38:39.239 --> 00:38:42.039
He can't just leave, he can't move out, he can't

668
00:38:42.039 --> 00:38:44.400
get in the car and head west. He probably couldn't

669
00:38:44.400 --> 00:38:45.599
make it out of the state with the amount of

670
00:38:45.599 --> 00:38:49.800
money he had because he never had a job. He

671
00:38:49.840 --> 00:38:55.320
had two options own up to his lies, stand up

672
00:38:55.519 --> 00:38:59.920
and finally tell the truth for once, or like a coward,

673
00:39:01.559 --> 00:39:06.360
shoot your father in the back. And that's exactly what happened.

674
00:39:07.960 --> 00:39:11.360
That's exactly what happened. Mss Veris says, Wow, we just

675
00:39:11.360 --> 00:39:14.639
got a shellcasing. Yeah, we got a bullet fragment. Just

676
00:39:14.719 --> 00:39:17.840
happens to have bart Holderson's DNA on it, and you

677
00:39:17.880 --> 00:39:19.679
looked at it. It just happens to appear to have

678
00:39:19.679 --> 00:39:25.679
blood all over it. And then text my mom, Hey,

679
00:39:25.679 --> 00:39:30.159
pick up soda for me. Dad's phone's dead. She gets home.

680
00:39:31.039 --> 00:39:32.920
Who's blood spatters on the safe right there by the

681
00:39:32.960 --> 00:39:38.000
bullet fragment, Those little red dots human blood. It's Crystal Holderson.

682
00:39:39.719 --> 00:39:43.800
We don't know what happened. We know exactly what happened.

683
00:39:45.880 --> 00:39:48.760
Murders are not captured on video. That's not how this happens.

684
00:39:48.800 --> 00:39:52.079
That's how this works. Sure, in the grand scheme of things,

685
00:39:52.119 --> 00:39:53.760
there are some people who are stupid enough to walk

686
00:39:53.800 --> 00:39:55.239
up to a gas station, stand in front of the

687
00:39:55.239 --> 00:39:58.800
security camera and shoot somebody. But that's not real life,

688
00:39:59.360 --> 00:40:03.000
that's not common sense. Chandler Alderson did this in the

689
00:40:03.000 --> 00:40:08.239
basement of his house. The blood is everywhere, the bullets there.

690
00:40:09.920 --> 00:40:13.639
You heard from mister Leatherberry who testified he only found

691
00:40:13.639 --> 00:40:15.559
one and the one he found was kind of rolled

692
00:40:15.599 --> 00:40:22.320
behind under that bench. He tried to clean up peroxide everywhere.

693
00:40:22.719 --> 00:40:27.360
He's having people bring him peroxide. Blood all over that fireplace,

694
00:40:27.440 --> 00:40:31.800
stoop bone, fragments in the ash trap. You know exactly

695
00:40:31.880 --> 00:40:36.840
what happened. You don't need a video. The lies are

696
00:40:36.920 --> 00:40:43.800
important because it's all Chandler Alderson had, and when they

697
00:40:43.800 --> 00:40:50.199
were exposed, he started coming up with this plan. And yeah,

698
00:40:50.320 --> 00:40:52.599
after the Omar job comes in, text comes in on

699
00:40:52.599 --> 00:40:55.079
the twenty ninth, he's having a conversation with his girlfriend.

700
00:40:55.119 --> 00:40:57.840
You heard miss Fair, actually read it, that's Fair. The

701
00:40:57.920 --> 00:40:59.719
day before, Hey, are we going to the cabin? What's

702
00:40:59.760 --> 00:41:02.000
going on? They're talking about the cabin. He's starting to

703
00:41:02.039 --> 00:41:04.440
dabble with the idea of what he's doing. But then

704
00:41:04.480 --> 00:41:07.599
I think it was at one o four pm, just

705
00:41:07.639 --> 00:41:09.280
about an hour and a half, two hours before he

706
00:41:09.280 --> 00:41:12.159
did it. He says they're going to the cabin. This weekend.

707
00:41:13.239 --> 00:41:16.599
He made his final decision because at that moment, moment,

708
00:41:17.199 --> 00:41:22.960
Chandler Halderson knew there was no way out. He couldn't

709
00:41:22.960 --> 00:41:25.360
get in the car and drive away. He couldn't make

710
00:41:25.440 --> 00:41:28.360
up another lie, he couldn't make up another email, he

711
00:41:28.400 --> 00:41:34.400
couldn't buy another burner phone. It was done. Everyone was

712
00:41:34.400 --> 00:41:39.320
going to see him for what he was, just some liar,

713
00:41:41.079 --> 00:41:44.639
some guy without a job, not going to school, who'd

714
00:41:44.639 --> 00:41:48.480
been lying to everyone for years. And he couldn't handle that,

715
00:41:50.840 --> 00:41:55.559
so he committed the ultimate act of betrayal against your parents,

716
00:41:56.719 --> 00:41:59.599
perhaps against any human being, but especially your parents, the

717
00:41:59.599 --> 00:42:02.320
person who held you when you were a baby, and

718
00:42:02.639 --> 00:42:04.559
cleaned up your cuts on your knee when you were

719
00:42:04.599 --> 00:42:08.159
learning to ride a bike, comforted to you when you

720
00:42:08.159 --> 00:42:14.159
were crying. The ultimate act of betrayal shot his parents,

721
00:42:15.880 --> 00:42:21.519
and then he cut him up, and he hid them.

722
00:42:21.559 --> 00:42:24.159
But the lies didn't even stop there. It was a

723
00:42:24.199 --> 00:42:30.159
new line. That's the cabin. Now he's on the news. Now,

724
00:42:30.159 --> 00:42:34.639
he was given interviews, given two three more days. Don't

725
00:42:34.639 --> 00:42:36.360
think for a second there wouldn't have been two three

726
00:42:36.400 --> 00:42:40.519
more fake emails, text messages from my mom. A whole

727
00:42:40.559 --> 00:42:43.440
new world, a whole new reality, for Chandler that he

728
00:42:43.480 --> 00:42:47.719
got to live in. His checklist was right there. Finally

729
00:42:47.760 --> 00:42:49.280
he was going to get a job. Obviously mom and

730
00:42:49.360 --> 00:42:52.760
dad couldn't support him anymore. Maybe he's going to get

731
00:42:52.760 --> 00:42:57.760
some life insurance. Maybe he knew, maybe he didn't. But

732
00:42:57.840 --> 00:43:00.760
he certainly got to continue on his fake life. He

733
00:43:00.840 --> 00:43:04.800
got to keep his girlfriend. People continued to respect him,

734
00:43:05.440 --> 00:43:09.719
His friends probably continued to think that he was successful. Important.

735
00:43:12.199 --> 00:43:17.119
The lies were rinsed and repeated, rinsed and repeated. And

736
00:43:17.239 --> 00:43:20.079
I promise, I'm I'm about dumb, and I'm the last

737
00:43:20.079 --> 00:43:22.920
person who talks. Judge's going to talk a little bit more.

738
00:43:24.679 --> 00:43:29.400
What happened here wasn't a mistake. What happened here wasn't

739
00:43:29.840 --> 00:43:36.840
innocent lies, coincidences. Mister Holderson's statements of the police that

740
00:43:36.880 --> 00:43:40.320
my mom has knows bleeds, and my dad he just

741
00:43:40.360 --> 00:43:44.719
scratches his psoriasis doesn't explain his blood on a bullet fragment.

742
00:43:45.719 --> 00:43:48.440
It doesn't explain all of their blood on the fireplace.

743
00:43:48.480 --> 00:43:51.119
It doesn't explain the Holderson's teeth in the ash trap.

744
00:43:51.800 --> 00:43:54.199
It doesn't explain their skull and the ash trap and

745
00:43:54.239 --> 00:43:58.159
placed on top of the fireplace. What I'm asking you

746
00:43:58.199 --> 00:44:01.679
to do is to look for the truth and not

747
00:44:01.760 --> 00:44:07.639
to negotiate. Not take the idea that well, there's one

748
00:44:07.639 --> 00:44:11.119
piece of paper there where he signed a document and

749
00:44:11.760 --> 00:44:14.079
says he lied to the cops, and maybe that's maybe

750
00:44:14.079 --> 00:44:21.119
that's good enough. These people were killed. This is a

751
00:44:21.119 --> 00:44:26.880
first degree intentional homicide. And there is only one person

752
00:44:28.280 --> 00:44:31.679
who did those things here, and that is Chandler Halderson,

753
00:44:32.559 --> 00:44:34.760
and we're asking you to find him guilty. Thank you,

754
00:44:36.159 --> 00:44:36.760
thank you, Coles.

755
00:44:42.079 --> 00:44:45.079
Coming up on the next episode of Tapes from the

756
00:44:45.159 --> 00:44:49.679
Dark Side, the jury returns a verdict and Chandler Halderson

757
00:44:50.000 --> 00:44:56.679
speaks in the courtroom for the first time. My name

758
00:44:56.760 --> 00:45:00.280
is Teazy, and you've been listening to Tapes from the

759
00:45:00.360 --> 00:45:05.000
Dark Side. This month on Patreon, we released a bonus

760
00:45:05.079 --> 00:45:09.719
episode called hot Pot, a look at a tragic incident

761
00:45:09.800 --> 00:45:13.880
that occurred in Yellowstone National Park. I think it's one

762
00:45:13.880 --> 00:45:17.639
of our best night Terrors yet, and I've already got

763
00:45:17.719 --> 00:45:21.039
another case lined up that I'm working on, actually a couple.

764
00:45:21.519 --> 00:45:25.960
So if you're interested in some bonus one off episodes

765
00:45:26.280 --> 00:45:31.280
our exclusive night Terrors series, you can go listen on

766
00:45:31.400 --> 00:45:35.719
patreon dot com slash Tapes from the Dark side. We've

767
00:45:35.760 --> 00:45:38.880
also got a couple episodes that are unlocked. All you

768
00:45:38.920 --> 00:45:41.000
have to do is join for free and you can

769
00:45:41.039 --> 00:45:45.719
listen to those episodes without any monthly payment. Now to

770
00:45:45.880 --> 00:45:51.559
our newest Patreon members, we have Dave McManus, shawna Dinzart,

771
00:45:52.159 --> 00:45:58.960
Matt delve Delvell del Va, Rachel Cannon, Marquito Gillespie, Crystal Hogan,

772
00:45:59.280 --> 00:46:07.440
Renee Aubrey s Lyles, Britt Pleck, Melissa Hudson, Timmer White Kiss,

773
00:46:08.000 --> 00:46:12.280
Melissa Stokes. And we have some yearly members. I have

774
00:46:12.320 --> 00:46:15.840
a note that maybe I've mispronounced the name last week,

775
00:46:16.519 --> 00:46:24.599
Galina Simons. We have Aaron v Sonny Farinacci, Kate Zimmerman,

776
00:46:25.360 --> 00:46:34.079
Laura Christine, Jilly Burton, Nikola Chesterman Ginger, Andreas Heida, Holly Deaton,

777
00:46:34.719 --> 00:46:40.960
Jessica Bell Sullivan and Danny Ashford. Also there is a

778
00:46:41.039 --> 00:46:44.159
producer tier member that I've been messing up their name

779
00:46:44.880 --> 00:46:51.360
so they are Scottish wait Irish. So actually saved their

780
00:46:51.480 --> 00:46:53.679
voice note because I think they have a lovely voice,

781
00:46:53.679 --> 00:46:57.840
and I'm gonna play I'm gonna play you them describing

782
00:46:57.840 --> 00:46:59.679
how their name actually is pronounced.

783
00:47:00.119 --> 00:47:03.480
Here's how you say it, Lara, that's my name Nie,

784
00:47:04.079 --> 00:47:07.639
which means daughter of whereas if you ever hear people say,

785
00:47:07.639 --> 00:47:12.599
oh that meets son of but nick, which is the

786
00:47:12.880 --> 00:47:15.760
Irish form of Kenna.

787
00:47:16.880 --> 00:47:22.320
We have one new producer, Jason Loose, and we always

788
00:47:22.400 --> 00:47:25.280
read out to our producers at the end of each episode.

789
00:47:25.559 --> 00:47:29.760
Check out the producer tier on Patreon. That's truly the

790
00:47:29.800 --> 00:47:33.719
workhorse of the podcast, the true supporters. Thank you guys

791
00:47:33.760 --> 00:47:40.679
so much. Sidney Raynan, Jody c Kevin, Stephenson, Erica, Angela,

792
00:47:40.840 --> 00:47:48.800
mf Michael, Paul Dekel, Ducky Crawford, Veronica Aaron Kristin, Rice,

793
00:47:49.440 --> 00:47:57.920
Jesse Bateman, Mariah, Monique Wilkinson, Teddy Redman, Jason Irvin, Jessica Cooper,

794
00:47:58.480 --> 00:48:05.800
Fiona Gibson, Sun Dean Joyce, Lovelace, Malory Bitterman, Santana Savine,

795
00:48:06.159 --> 00:48:13.280
Vanessa Miller, Jonathan Cox, Gino, Ai Bunco, Tyler, Ernster, Pencil Junkie,

796
00:48:13.840 --> 00:48:19.880
Sherry Sly, Shelley Jones, Fran Alexis, Kathleen and Greg b.

797
00:48:20.639 --> 00:48:24.199
If you sign up for a yearly membership, you get

798
00:48:24.199 --> 00:48:28.199
two months free automatically, and it also just helps me

799
00:48:28.360 --> 00:48:31.760
kind of budget for the year on the podcast. So

800
00:48:31.840 --> 00:48:36.000
come and join us. Patreon dot com slash Tapes from

801
00:48:36.079 --> 00:48:39.000
the Dark Side. As always, I have to thank the

802
00:48:39.159 --> 00:48:43.440
incredibly brilliant twenty six hundred for allowing us to adapt

803
00:48:43.519 --> 00:48:46.159
one of his songs for a main theme in the

804
00:48:46.280 --> 00:48:52.119
legend Augusta Trevororum truly some of the best electronic music

805
00:48:52.239 --> 00:48:55.679
out there. You're probably hearing one of his tracks right now.

806
00:48:55.760 --> 00:48:59.000
I haven't mixed it up yet, but I'm guessing I'll

807
00:48:59.079 --> 00:49:01.679
use one of his tracks for the credits. That's all

808
00:49:01.719 --> 00:49:06.639
I got for today. Thank you for listening, and until

809
00:49:06.760 --> 00:49:11.760
next time, try to enjoy the daylight.

810
00:49:24.079 --> 00:49:28.159
A dark Side. Scot