S11, Chapter 8: Torso

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A'stz just have a quick bit of
bookkeeping before we start the episode today.

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One note is that if you wait
till the end of the episodes in this

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season, we've been featuring some bonus
footage from the jailhouse phone calls between Chandler

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and Kat, and today's clip is
particularly relevant, so stick around to catch

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that if you have a chance.
I know this season's episode releases have been

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a little bit sporadic, but I
promise that I'm getting them out to you

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as quickly as I'm finished editing them. I just don't want the quality to

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suffer because I'm rushing, and I
can say with fairly high confidence that the

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episode after this one will be out
much quicker than this one was. Another

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note is you may have heard in
our past episodes that our Patreon membership was

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three dollars. I've been going back
and editing that it's currently at five dollars

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as of May twenty twenty four.
Just wanted to update you on that in

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case you were confused upon visiting our
Patreon site. We have been keeping up

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with our monthly Night Terrors on Patreon. We currently have seven of those,

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which are independent bonus episodes, and
we will have an eighth one coming around

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the first of next month. We'll
play a quick ad and then we'll get

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right into the episode. If you
want to skip the ads, you can

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always go to patreon dot com slash
tapes from the dark Side. Tapes from

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the Dark Side contains descriptions of violence
and sexuality. Listener discretion is advised.

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Now at this point in the investigation, the police are out there with this

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woman. They're out on the farm
and she says he walked out over there.

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And you'll hear from the detective,
Detective Brett Baverstock, who is out

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there, and he'll tell you that
his eyes kind of shifted up and he

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saw vultures. And I promise the
photos are only going to go this far

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for right now. But the police
walked about twenty yards into the woods and

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then that pile of debris under dozens
of sticks, bushes in dirt, they

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found Bart Holderson. Now, when
I say they found Bart Halderson, I

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need to explain that I think everyone
has a bit of a fascination with the

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dark Side. I myself willways loved
the Dark Side as well. I think

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it's something that everyone secretly longs form
models there was just something that wasn't natural

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under the sticks. Did you go
check it out? Yeah? I got

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as close as I had tone.
On July eighth, twenty twenty one,

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the same day that police were interviewing
Chandler, they also made contact with a

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woman named Crescent Lesai. For the
remainder of this episode, we will refer

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to her as Cress. Cress reported
that sometime in the last week she recalled

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seeing vultures circling around the woods on
her property, and she considered this strange.

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Officers drove out to Cottage Grove,
where she lives, about a twenty

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five minute drive south of Chandler's house, due eastside the city of Madison.

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When officers arrived, they talked with
Cress and her girlfriend, Dulce Melinder.

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Remember that Dulce as Kat's mother,
and then the police began searching the property.

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Out passed the house, Chris has
a pool. It's a little hike,

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so she and Dulce usually used the
riding lawnmower to drive out there in

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the summer when they want to take
a dip, and it's just past the

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pool near clearing that leads to a
tree line that police made a shocking Discovery

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May. Shortly before noon on July
eighth, Detective Liz Allen came to my

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office. She said she had just
had a phone call with the mother of

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Catherine Mellender, who was the girlfriend
of Chandler Holderson, and during that phone

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call, shed intended to do initially
just a phone interview which just kind of

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get some background information, but some
things on that phone call alerted her to

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believe that we needed to follow up
with a in person interview. And was

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that with Dulce. That was with
Dulce, correct, and just briefly,

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if you could describe Dulce's kind of
a emotional state during some of that interview.

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Well, we got to the location
where we agreed to interview her,

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which is she was in the middle
of some classes, just trying to improve

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her education, and we sat in
a side little conference room, and she

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was emotionally distraught. She kind of
had this look of fear and panic in

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her eyes. Based upon our interviews
with them, we determined we needed to

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get out to that farm right away
and search it. I carefully reviewed the

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entirety of Dulce Melender's testimony and Ken
confirmed that she was actually never asked any

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questions about this initial interview, and
it's not covered anywhere else that I could

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find, but I did find this
clip of her talking a little bit about

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Cres's farm. You were looking here
guys right, Yes, but is your

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said yes, yes, as a
farm, it's kind of in a rural

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area. Game. Yes, so
it's Cross's Farms your image. Yes,

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Yes, we got engaged in May. Yes, and Crest lives in the

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farm her, Yes, you go
off. I live part time there.

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Yes, it's like a paradise.
It's peaceful, it's green, and it's

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flowers that you don't see. It's
just it's just beautiful. It's probably thirty

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to forty acres. A lot of
it is wooded. The house sits in

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a wooded area. There's a paved
driveway that goes up from the road and

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it kind of turns off to where
the house is, and then if you

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kept going straight on that, it
would turn into a gravel and then up

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into the grass area would be where
like the back shed was in the pool

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and the raspberries. And then while
I was on the way, I contacted

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Barry Ermin from the Dane County Medical
Examiner's Office and asked him to respond with

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his cadaver dog to help us do
the search. I got there and nobody

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was there. I had expected Chris
and duel Say to meet me to beat

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me there. I went to the
house, knocked on the door, and

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nobody answered. And I got worried
that they went up and started searching on

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their own. So I went up
there. I went up into the grass

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area like you can see you have
a photo of the farm there, so

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I could see whether or not anybody
was back by there. And you know,

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I noticed, you know, during
my contact with Chris, you did

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talk that she had recently seen vultures
circling over the property. And I'm going

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to Jack, does hearsay, sure, sustained. Did you yourself at some

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point see some birds over the woods? Yes? And what were those birds?

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Turkey vultures? And did that raise
red flags to you? Oh?

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Yeah? Why? You know,
most birds really don't have a sense of

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smell, except for turkey vultures.
Turkey vultures. Actually, you know,

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when the body, when a body, or an animal or a creature dies,

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it starts going through some changes.
The microorganisms on there start producing different

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gases and it emanates an odor.
Turkey vultures can smell that, and when

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they do, they'll start circling the
area to locate where it's coming from.

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Did you find Crests and Dulce as
you walked back there? Eventually I walked

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up there. I didn't see them, and then Dulce or Crest came out

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of the back sliding patio door and
met me. I asked her if she

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could show me again where she had
seen Chandler back by the woods, and

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we walked back up to the the
area of the shed and she showed me.

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When you say she showed you,
did she point physically? Yes,

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she did what we were saying here, Okay, she pointed, okay,

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physically put her hand up and pointed. I would say that the witness just

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pointed to toward the woodline, approximately
a foot below that barn, where the

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barn is at that point. What
did you do? Well? My partners

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hadn't arrived yet, so I asked
for Crest to go back and wait in

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the house, and I told it
my partners would be here soon and we'd

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start doing our search. As you
got over toward let's say that junk pile

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before the grass gets longer there,
did you see any signs. That's a

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card been over there? Yes,
what did you see? Well, Detective

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Blank pointed it out first. He
pointed over and he said, well,

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looks cars driven through the tall grass
over here. Yeah, it does.

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So we went over there and we
saw there were two tracks of the taller

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grass. The grass is probably about, you know, waist high. They

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went back probably about to an area
where there were some white wooden boxes at

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old bee hives that were just kind
of stored along the tree line. And

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that's before you entered the woods.
Correct, that's before I entered the woods.

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Eighty seven. What are we looking
at there? So the picture doesn't

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show it as much, but there's
again you can see the vegetation in the

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ground there, but it was very
directional as far as this area to see,

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like this log, the vegetation had
been trampled down, so it's hard

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to tell from this picture. But
there's actually a downward slope here. You

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know, if the trees weren't here, it would be a good little sledging

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hill for little kids. But there's
like a downward slope that goes down into

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you can see like a little brush
pile down there. Okay, eighty eight

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what are we looking at? There
more of the trample grass that goes to

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this log that goes across, and
then you can see they get the green

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moss on the log, but there's
areas where the green moss had been scraped

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off, as if something had scraped
it off. Did you notice anything ultimately

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beyond that log at this point,
Yeah, the pile of sticks on the

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other side of the log, and
there was just something that wasn't natural under

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the sticks. Did you go check
it out? Yeah? I got as

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close as I had to eighty nine
the photo, just moving a little bit

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closer, yep, and again you
see the scrapes on the log there,

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just under the moss, and then
you can see the pile of sticks there,

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and there's something underneath it. I
couldn't quite tell what it was right

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away, so I stepped over the
log and got a little bit of a

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closer look. And what did you
find? I didn't know what it was

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at first. You mean by that, It's just it took me a while

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to process what I was seeing,
you know. Then it was became obvious

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that I was looking at a human
Torso, okay, so we're gonna move

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a little bit closer to photograph ninety
and again we're starting to maybe be able

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to see that what you saw that
day, Yes, under those sticks.

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Okay, going to ninety one,
a different view of kind of looking at

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through those sticks. Yeah, and
that this is about the view that I

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had. You can see the flesh
color skin on the right and the belt

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pants and a black rope attached to
it. Knows you can see the rope

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coming out from the bottom of the
stickpile. We're going to go to the

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next photo, which is ninety two, just a close up of under those

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sticks. Yes. At this point, Council, I will caution and remind

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the jurors that obviously, at some
point these photographs will become more explicit as

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necessary for the state's case in chief, and I just remind you to observe

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them for whatever length of time you
believe is necessary as a juror to do

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your job. If anyone needs a
pause, we'll be happy to do that.

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And I know Attorney Brown or other
council if they're using any of these

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photos, will alert you every time
the photo is going to change that if

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you have diverted your gaze, you'll
know to look back to see the next

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photo, just as Judge John Hyland
did for the jury. I'm now going

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to issue a warning for our listeners, not about anything that you'll hear,

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although it is graphic, but about
a photograph that I've included in the show

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notes, a photograph of Bart Halderson's
Torso it's in a separate link from the

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case pictures that I usually include,
and I will advise you to click this

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link with caution. Now. The
photo is not necessarily the most graphic thing

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I've ever seen. In fact,
it was live streamed on Facebook and YouTube

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during the trial. I don't know
whether that was on accident or on purpose.

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And while it is explicit, I've
seen a lot of core throughout my

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years. If you'll remember the Jesse
Washington lynching case from season two, those

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photographs had brought me to tears.
I also grew up in the era where

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we watched literal beheading videos on the
high school computers, and I don't really

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seek that kind of content out these
days unless I have to for a case.

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But this picture, in combination with
my closeness to the case, has

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led to some quite vivid nightmares,
the dreadfield type, the one where you

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wake up in a cold sweat.
So the pictures there if you'd like to

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view it. I won't judge you
either way, but if you do,

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decide to just understand the choice you're
making, because it's one you cannot reverse.

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Please continue, thank you. Okay, we'll go to the next photo.

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Ninety three. What are we looking
at there? That's the rope that

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was attached to the body. Ninety
four that's a garbage canon. And where

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was that in relation to the torso? So in relation to so this is

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back up closer to the top of
the hill, off to the right out

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of picture would be where the beehive
boxes were, Okay, And that tarp

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was out there around the time you
found the torso, or that that garbage

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can. The garbage can was there, and there was the tarp was inside

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of it. Now moving back obviously, number ninety six, we're back to

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looking at that pile of sticks.
Correct, correct, We're looking at the

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human torso underneath the pile of sticks. Was it a considerable pile of debris

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on top of the torso if you
could describe it in any way you could

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you know it wasn't natural to It
looked like it had been accumulated and placed

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on top number ninety eight. What
am I looking at there? You're looking

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at the torso with I believe that's
going to be the most obvious sign would

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be like the right shoulder with the
arm severed off, the head missing.

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Obviously, the torso needed to be
removed from the from the area it was

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in and taken somewhere else. Yes, that was done by the medical examiner.

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Correct. Doctors came out and helped
with that. Yes, And I'm

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gonna go to the last exhibit one
O seven. After the torso was rolled

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over, something was found underneath it. Black item. Correct, Yeah,

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you could see it even when the
torso it was sticking out from underneath it.

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It was a black T shirt.
You can see the many maggots that

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were crawling around the shirt and around
the wounds on the torso. Okay,

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judge, can we shut this off? We mentioned this at the beginning of

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the episode, and it just so
happens that at the time that the truth

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of this case was being exposed visually, it was also being exposed audibly.

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As on the afternoon of July eighth, Chandler and Cat were taken to the

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police station and held in separate interrogation
rooms. We've heard a bit of Cat's

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testimony. What is her memory of
that Fourth of July weekend at Cres's farm.

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So the fourth you're at your farm, my mom and you're having a

205
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like with the whole family get together. We ate inside. Mom and Crass

206
00:18:33.400 --> 00:18:37.400
were mostly inside, but they're outside
every now and then. We don't really

207
00:18:37.400 --> 00:18:41.759
go past the wildflowers because you know, Cres gets paid for by the state

208
00:18:41.880 --> 00:18:45.559
to like you know now, used
to pest the size protect the flowers because

209
00:18:45.559 --> 00:18:52.079
then that brings in bees. We
stopped at the chicken coop so I can

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00:18:52.279 --> 00:18:56.079
take a picture with Chandler's chicken Hawkeye. So this is while you're given the

211
00:18:56.119 --> 00:19:00.240
tour with your brother and his girlfriend. No, they kind of like their

212
00:19:00.240 --> 00:19:03.079
own thing. The chicken coop thing
was like they were doing their thing.

213
00:19:03.519 --> 00:19:07.279
Is there a barn. There's a
barn, but I didn't really venture in

214
00:19:07.319 --> 00:19:10.440
there except to bring my brother's cooler
in there because he made us haul it

215
00:19:10.480 --> 00:19:12.240
there, and I said, we're
taking your girl back. I'm not hauling

216
00:19:12.240 --> 00:19:22.559
that too. The barn at all, not that I recall, But there

217
00:19:22.640 --> 00:19:26.559
was where a point where he was
changing because he kept a swim sooner his

218
00:19:26.599 --> 00:19:30.720
tallow in my car, okay,
and I changed inside, but he like

219
00:19:32.160 --> 00:19:33.599
just went on the other side of
the car that's like close to the barn,

220
00:19:34.000 --> 00:19:37.880
like you know where the gas tank
is, Like we were parked kind

221
00:19:37.880 --> 00:19:41.839
of there, and he was on
the passenger side, so he was next

222
00:19:41.880 --> 00:19:47.279
to like the barn and gas tank
area changing. And I have a video

223
00:19:47.279 --> 00:19:52.880
of us by the pool at the
farm after we had dinner. I think,

224
00:19:53.240 --> 00:19:57.160
did you make dinner at three thirty? I think we had it around

225
00:19:57.240 --> 00:20:03.079
like maybe three point five. I'm
almost not happy. It was good.

226
00:20:03.160 --> 00:20:15.119
She made crab salad. Yes,
on the fourth, five thirty pm.

227
00:20:15.359 --> 00:20:22.759
That is Chandler cleaning the bog's up. Cool, says right there at the

228
00:20:22.759 --> 00:20:27.640
top in the days I have their
each your life a lot cool. And

229
00:20:27.680 --> 00:20:33.920
then we left around six point thirty
because he had to be home before eight

230
00:20:33.960 --> 00:20:38.960
to feed the dogs their dinner.
When he's at your farm, mistaken was

231
00:20:40.000 --> 00:20:41.200
he were you guys at to pull
the whole time? Or is he walking

232
00:20:41.240 --> 00:20:45.559
around the property at all? Mm
hmmm. I mean we went on walks

233
00:20:45.559 --> 00:20:49.559
together, but walking's hard for him. Sure, It's not like he could

234
00:20:49.640 --> 00:20:52.559
run away, And I wouldn't say
him, but we were on each other

235
00:20:52.599 --> 00:20:56.319
the whole time. What's the furtherest
you guys walk You think it's a big

236
00:20:56.319 --> 00:21:00.319
property out here? Yeah, probably
the furthest we was so it's like pool

237
00:21:00.319 --> 00:21:07.160
here, Raspberry patch where we go
Raspberry right over here is barn. Started

238
00:21:07.160 --> 00:21:08.680
walking back that way, you'll pass
them all berry tree, the grapes,

239
00:21:10.559 --> 00:21:12.599
get to the house on the other
side, like a little to the corner

240
00:21:12.599 --> 00:21:17.440
of the house, there's like a
little shed where we have the chickens to

241
00:21:17.640 --> 00:21:22.599
the barn. So not really that
far, okay, all around each other,

242
00:21:25.519 --> 00:21:30.279
according to Kat. Chandler returned to
Cottage Grove the next day, this

243
00:21:30.440 --> 00:21:37.160
time by himself. Chandler went to
the farm because my mom's fiance lets him

244
00:21:37.200 --> 00:21:40.319
walk in the pool, because that's
one of the things we did Sunday,

245
00:21:40.400 --> 00:21:42.480
because it helps stretch out his legs, make him feel better. Because I

246
00:21:42.480 --> 00:21:51.400
also helped stretch his legs on Friday
because he has some like it's not tired,

247
00:21:51.519 --> 00:21:55.640
numbness, that's the word. And
then from its fall. He had

248
00:21:55.680 --> 00:21:59.000
a couple of weeks back on Monday, he said, he walked off by

249
00:21:59.079 --> 00:22:03.039
himself, but he was going to
cry, so I'm he walked off by

250
00:22:03.079 --> 00:22:07.680
himself little cry. Yeah, I
was upset about it if Mam Hald text

251
00:22:07.720 --> 00:22:11.279
him on Sunday saying that the job
things though all the job there? Yeah,

252
00:22:11.799 --> 00:22:14.279
and when did you find out about
the job of that Monday? Yes,

253
00:22:14.680 --> 00:22:18.160
because it was right after's appointment,
because they like called him a chardon.

254
00:22:18.519 --> 00:22:25.200
Okay, the Chandler's version of events
is a little bit different. I

255
00:22:25.240 --> 00:22:29.000
try to go to the farm and
I keep spam and Cress and spam and

256
00:22:29.039 --> 00:22:33.319
Cress. I kind of need someone
to talk to because freaking out about my

257
00:22:33.400 --> 00:22:38.599
parts. Never picked up from Cress, so I go home. Did you

258
00:22:38.839 --> 00:22:44.279
drive over to the farm or yeah? Yeah, yeah, because she wasn't

259
00:22:44.319 --> 00:22:48.000
answering her phone right, So I
got close. But then I realized I

260
00:22:48.000 --> 00:22:52.599
can't just show up. They'd shoot
me. I don't know when I drive

261
00:22:52.160 --> 00:22:57.079
or it looked like with a hat
on they had guns over there. What

262
00:22:57.200 --> 00:23:03.559
they actually show you? No,
IM saying her dad lives there. He's

263
00:23:03.599 --> 00:23:08.119
he's ninety. He got a buck
when he was ninety five or something,

264
00:23:08.640 --> 00:23:12.079
so I know if he didn't know
what it was, he could have Yeah.

265
00:23:14.640 --> 00:23:19.839
So he's he's old, but he
can use the gun. That's why

266
00:23:19.880 --> 00:23:25.279
I wouldn't do that. Yeah.
So the cress's dad lives there too.

267
00:23:25.599 --> 00:23:29.559
Yeah, who's played is it Criss
Farmer? It's her dad's he built it,

268
00:23:29.839 --> 00:23:33.799
oh god. And then she lives
there. She's managing the property because

269
00:23:33.799 --> 00:23:40.759
he's in the chair. Yeah,
he's old. So then it's not really

270
00:23:40.759 --> 00:23:48.839
a farm and said hobby. Yeah, yeah, you know the background.

271
00:23:48.880 --> 00:23:52.960
I think right. Yeah, Like
so, so I think it's time to

272
00:23:52.000 --> 00:23:56.519
start talking about what happens your parents, like the truthful version. Okay,

273
00:23:57.160 --> 00:24:03.440
okay, so we have like twenty
pages of writing. Let I start with

274
00:24:03.480 --> 00:24:06.119
a clean white piece of paper.
If you just start telling the truth,

275
00:24:06.680 --> 00:24:08.759
what because, listen, listen to
me. This is the only chance you're

276
00:24:08.759 --> 00:24:12.680
going to have to tell us the
truth. Okay, Okay, what we

277
00:24:12.880 --> 00:24:17.039
listen? Listen. Okay, I
can't tell you what we know. What

278
00:24:17.119 --> 00:24:19.000
we know. You're not telling us
the truth. We know your parents are

279
00:24:19.079 --> 00:24:23.720
no longer with us, okay,
and we know the reason why. Okay,

280
00:24:23.880 --> 00:24:27.799
we need to tell the truth.
There's listen, listen. You need

281
00:24:27.839 --> 00:24:32.079
to tell the truth about what happened, and just tell us why it happened.

282
00:24:33.119 --> 00:24:36.720
Okay. If something happened, if
you were defending yourself, or if

283
00:24:36.720 --> 00:24:38.759
you just fed up with stuff.
You need to tell us the truth.

284
00:24:40.000 --> 00:24:45.680
Okay, this is your chance to
tell us why. Okay, I'll not

285
00:24:45.759 --> 00:24:52.920
being essen yet. Okay, so
can we do that? Okay, they're

286
00:24:52.960 --> 00:25:04.359
okay nowhere. I'm sorry shaving and
tr with the lawyer because therapy. You

287
00:25:04.440 --> 00:25:17.559
want a layer, yeah, okay, okay, yeah, that's right to

288
00:25:17.880 --> 00:25:30.480
temmy. Marri's about six or four
you want you're unterested, Okay. At

289
00:25:30.480 --> 00:25:34.599
this point, police knew that Chandler
was being untruthful about a number of key

290
00:25:34.720 --> 00:25:40.920
facts regarding the disappearance of his parents, and he was taken into custody in

291
00:25:41.000 --> 00:25:48.960
charge with providing false information on a
missing person's case. What happened? Okay,

292
00:25:48.079 --> 00:25:52.920
you can you know what happened.
We're not gonna told you what happened.

293
00:25:52.920 --> 00:25:56.200
You know what happened. You were
there when it happened. We're not

294
00:25:56.279 --> 00:26:03.680
b and okay I wasn't there.
We're gonna happen. We know more than

295
00:26:03.720 --> 00:26:08.680
you think. We know all that
asked. There's people that have told us

296
00:26:08.720 --> 00:26:14.119
things. We have. We have
evidence with group Mores had. Okay,

297
00:26:15.960 --> 00:26:18.519
so your parents never made it to
the cabinet. I think you know that,

298
00:26:22.480 --> 00:26:26.319
Okay, sore asking for an attorney, We're not gonna ask any more

299
00:26:26.400 --> 00:26:37.200
questions as him stay at about them
over here. Yeah. It wasn't until

300
00:26:37.240 --> 00:26:41.519
a week later, on July fifteenth, when they would formally charge him with

301
00:26:41.599 --> 00:26:47.079
the death of his father, part
Halderson, first degree intentional homicide and one

302
00:26:47.240 --> 00:26:52.880
million dollars bail. The police report
gives us a couple of key insights into

303
00:26:52.880 --> 00:27:00.519
the moments directly after Chandler Holderson's arrest. Quote, as Detective Hendrickson and Chandler

304
00:27:00.559 --> 00:27:06.119
were walking towards booking, he made
an unsolicited comment that he wanted to quote

305
00:27:06.440 --> 00:27:12.279
go back up and he would quote
tell me everything. Detective Hendrickson inform Chandler

306
00:27:12.319 --> 00:27:17.200
he could not speak to him any
longer regarding his missing parents, as he

307
00:27:17.240 --> 00:27:22.079
had invoked his right to an attorney
only minutes earlier. Chandler then asked something

308
00:27:22.119 --> 00:27:25.920
to the extent of quote, what
if I want to tell you everything with

309
00:27:25.960 --> 00:27:30.240
an attorney there to guide me.
Detective Hendrickson inform Chandler that would be entirely

310
00:27:30.279 --> 00:27:34.559
his decision to make at a later
time, but at this point he was

311
00:27:34.599 --> 00:27:40.200
not going to be questioning him any
further about his missing parents. Chandler then

312
00:27:40.279 --> 00:27:45.319
proceeded to make another unsolicited comment that
he again quote wanted to tell me everything.

313
00:27:47.079 --> 00:27:51.640
During the course of completing the booking
paperwork, specifically the booking sheet and

314
00:27:51.680 --> 00:27:56.119
the medical intake questionnaire, Chandler asked
something to the effect of quote what was

315
00:27:56.160 --> 00:28:02.559
different. Detective Hendrickson's response to Handler
at that point in time was that they

316
00:28:02.599 --> 00:28:07.400
had quote found something, and Chandler
became very wide eyed, similar to a

317
00:28:07.440 --> 00:28:12.480
prior reaction that he had made during
the interview before invoking his attorney, and

318
00:28:12.519 --> 00:28:17.039
then he made a comment to the
extent of quote, he don't know the

319
00:28:17.079 --> 00:28:22.279
whole story. During the course of
completing the booking questionnaire, detective Hendrickson asked

320
00:28:22.319 --> 00:28:29.279
Chandler if he was suicidal, and
his response to Detective Hendrickson's question was that

321
00:28:29.359 --> 00:28:34.839
he quote didn't feel bad about what
I did. Plenty reports his observations of

322
00:28:34.920 --> 00:28:38.960
Chandler while taking pictures was that he
had bruising on the backside of one of

323
00:28:40.000 --> 00:28:45.119
his upper arms. The coloration appeared
to be purple and yellow. Plenty observed

324
00:28:45.119 --> 00:28:48.960
there was bruising to the lower portion
of Chandler's legs and the knee area.

325
00:28:48.640 --> 00:28:53.559
Plenty observed in both left and right
lower legs that were scratches present. He

326
00:28:53.640 --> 00:29:00.720
scratches appeared narrow and wid and looked
consistent as if someone had been walking through

327
00:29:00.759 --> 00:29:07.200
barrier briar bushes, the same type
of briar bushes that were ever president in

328
00:29:07.240 --> 00:29:14.599
the woods on Cress's farm at Cottage
Grove, where Chandler had hidden his father's

329
00:29:14.640 --> 00:29:22.160
torso under a pile of sticks.
We'll be right back after a quick break.

330
00:29:22.160 --> 00:29:30.759
Don't go anywhere. You just seemed
kind of off, like, kind

331
00:29:30.759 --> 00:29:40.480
of weird, actually, Crescent Lessai, c R E S E N T

332
00:29:41.000 --> 00:29:48.920
l apostrophe s Ai and miss Lasai. Do you know somebody by the name

333
00:29:48.960 --> 00:29:52.599
of Dulce Milander? Yes? I
do. How do you know her?

334
00:29:52.960 --> 00:29:56.960
Oh, she's my girlfriend? Okay? And does she refer to you often

335
00:29:56.000 --> 00:30:02.680
as Cress? Yes, everyone mostly
does Ken as well. And do you

336
00:30:02.799 --> 00:30:07.599
know somebody by the name of Catherine
Milander? Yes? I do. How

337
00:30:07.599 --> 00:30:11.200
do you know her? I know
her through Dulcie, she's her daughter,

338
00:30:11.880 --> 00:30:17.319
and through Katherine, her cat.
Did you become acquainted with somebody by the

339
00:30:17.440 --> 00:30:22.680
name of Chandler Halderson Yes, before
July fourth weekend? How many times approximately

340
00:30:22.839 --> 00:30:27.519
had Chandler been out to your property? Oh? I couldn't say exactly.

341
00:30:27.599 --> 00:30:30.319
I could give you an estimate.
Sure, an esmen is just fine,

342
00:30:30.440 --> 00:30:36.039
like ten or twelve times maybe,
Okay. And did he ever come out

343
00:30:36.079 --> 00:30:40.599
there prior to the July fourth weekend
by himself or was he always with somebody

344
00:30:40.599 --> 00:30:42.920
else? He always was with someone
else. He'd never come out there alone

345
00:30:42.920 --> 00:30:47.799
before that I'm aware of, Okay, And generally I assume that was his

346
00:30:47.880 --> 00:30:53.279
girlfriend Kat. Yeah, she was
always with him. How did mister Halderson

347
00:30:53.400 --> 00:31:00.000
behave on that day? Well,
he kind of seemed a little loud,

348
00:31:00.319 --> 00:31:03.640
not like hisself. You've described that. What do you mean by that?

349
00:31:07.680 --> 00:31:17.240
He just seemed kind of off,
like kind of weird. Actually, okay,

350
00:31:17.759 --> 00:31:19.039
I mean I remember asking him how
he felt, you know, because

351
00:31:19.079 --> 00:31:22.960
I just you just kind of seem
okay. You asked him how he felt.

352
00:31:23.000 --> 00:31:27.160
What did do you remember how he
responded? Yeah, he just said,

353
00:31:27.160 --> 00:31:32.799
oh, you know, I'm I'm
doing okay, or doing the best

354
00:31:32.799 --> 00:31:37.359
that I can. And because he
had an accident, he's fell down the

355
00:31:37.359 --> 00:31:40.119
stairs or something, so I thought
maybe it was because of the accident that

356
00:31:40.160 --> 00:31:45.839
he was acting off. Sure was
he displaying any physical symptoms on July fourth?

357
00:31:45.000 --> 00:31:49.079
Not that I not that I saw
no. Okay, was he wearing

358
00:31:49.079 --> 00:31:52.799
a neck brace at all on July
fourth when you saw him? No?

359
00:31:55.119 --> 00:32:00.079
Did he act in any way that
he seemed like disabled? Did he have

360
00:32:00.160 --> 00:32:05.039
any trouble walking or anything like that? No, I didn't notice that.

361
00:32:05.279 --> 00:32:10.960
Okay, Well, shortly after he
was done eating or kids were sitting at

362
00:32:10.960 --> 00:32:15.559
the table in my family room and
they had gotten up, and I was

363
00:32:16.119 --> 00:32:20.480
kind of walking towards the kitchen,
and he approached me and asked me if

364
00:32:20.480 --> 00:32:23.839
he could have my phone number,
my personal phone number, because he wanted

365
00:32:23.880 --> 00:32:28.200
to know if he could come and
use the pool. Okay, did you

366
00:32:28.200 --> 00:32:30.799
give him your number? Yeah?
I gave him my cell number, and

367
00:32:30.880 --> 00:32:36.039
I also gave him my landline.
We actually have a recording the voicemail that

368
00:32:36.119 --> 00:32:45.000
Chandler left for Crescent Masailles, Hilander. I just got back with some pretty

369
00:32:45.160 --> 00:32:51.119
terrible news, doctor, so I
was wondering if I could come by.

370
00:32:52.160 --> 00:33:00.079
I'll take at the pool hang out
on not having the most ideal day,

371
00:33:01.000 --> 00:33:09.160
I suppose well called me back.
Nineteen year old eight three eight four five

372
00:33:09.440 --> 00:33:22.920
four nine, Thank you right Monday
cool twenty five pm. Did you have

373
00:33:22.960 --> 00:33:29.480
any interactions with Chandler on Monday July
fifth. Yes, the first interaction was

374
00:33:29.839 --> 00:33:35.440
I opened up my window. I
I live in a two story and I

375
00:33:35.480 --> 00:33:39.240
saw a car in my driveway and
it didn't recognize the car and someone was

376
00:33:39.279 --> 00:33:44.480
standing in my driveway and it was
it was Chandler. So I opened the

377
00:33:44.480 --> 00:33:49.160
window because he was kind of standing
holding his phone and I'm looking around,

378
00:33:49.240 --> 00:33:52.480
and so I opened the window and
I said, I asked him if he

379
00:33:52.519 --> 00:33:55.119
was okay, and he said yeah. And I said, oh, I

380
00:33:55.119 --> 00:33:58.400
said, are you here to use
the pool? And he said yeah,

381
00:33:58.400 --> 00:34:00.960
would that be all right? And
I said, yeah, sure. Were

382
00:34:00.960 --> 00:34:07.119
you expecting Chandler that day? No? Okay? Do you remember about what

383
00:34:07.279 --> 00:34:10.159
time he showed up to use your
pool? Just approximate if you remember it

384
00:34:10.199 --> 00:34:13.639
was it was in the afternoon.
I just remember coming in. It was

385
00:34:13.679 --> 00:34:15.679
really hot that day. I was
working on a project and so I came

386
00:34:15.719 --> 00:34:19.360
in to get a drink of water. So it was probably mid afternoon,

387
00:34:19.400 --> 00:34:23.599
is sho. I would say,
Okay, So what happened after you told

388
00:34:23.719 --> 00:34:30.440
Chandler he could use the pool?
Well, he drove up, you know,

389
00:34:30.559 --> 00:34:35.079
because if you come I live on
a hill and when you come to

390
00:34:35.119 --> 00:34:37.320
the driveway, it's kind of in
the middle of the hill and so you

391
00:34:37.400 --> 00:34:40.400
have to drive further up the hill
to where the pool is. So he

392
00:34:40.800 --> 00:34:45.599
drove up there. I was putting
a ramp so that my father and my

393
00:34:45.599 --> 00:34:50.679
brother could get up and down the
deck in there on the scooter in the

394
00:34:50.719 --> 00:34:54.679
wheelchairs, okay. And so when
I was working on that, he'd come

395
00:34:54.760 --> 00:35:00.320
down. Come there's a hill that
comes leads down to my house, and

396
00:35:00.360 --> 00:35:07.719
he'd come walking down that hill.
And then we had a conversation. What

397
00:35:07.760 --> 00:35:15.239
did you guys talk about? Well, he was telling me about his accident.

398
00:35:15.400 --> 00:35:20.360
He said he was at a doctor's
appointment, and so he was talking

399
00:35:20.400 --> 00:35:22.440
to me about what the doctor had
said and what was going on. Did

400
00:35:22.440 --> 00:35:30.159
he tell you when that appointment had
been I don't remember, Okay, What

401
00:35:30.320 --> 00:35:35.360
did he say occurred? Well,
he told me that he had like damage

402
00:35:35.480 --> 00:35:38.000
and I asked him where. He
said, in this area of his head,

403
00:35:39.000 --> 00:35:44.280
in the back of his head,
and he's just like said his mind

404
00:35:44.360 --> 00:35:49.679
was kind of messed up and wasn't
thinking so well. I asked him,

405
00:35:49.719 --> 00:35:54.079
you know, basically, how he
was overall doing and about his job,

406
00:35:54.119 --> 00:35:58.800
because he said he was getting a
new job in Florida, And I asked

407
00:35:58.880 --> 00:36:02.119
him about that was what did he
say? Well, he said that he

408
00:36:02.480 --> 00:36:06.679
probably wasn't going to get the job, that some manager had told him that

409
00:36:06.760 --> 00:36:09.840
it wasn't going to work out because
of his injury, that he wasn't able

410
00:36:09.880 --> 00:36:15.760
to work. When I asked him, you know, would he talk to

411
00:36:15.800 --> 00:36:19.239
his parents? You know, maybe
could he talk to them or you know,

412
00:36:19.320 --> 00:36:21.480
things like that, just to try
to reassure him, because he just

413
00:36:21.519 --> 00:36:24.920
seemed upset about this news that he
had gotten from the doctor. Sure,

414
00:36:25.039 --> 00:36:30.920
And what did he respond to that? And his responses He says, no,

415
00:36:30.039 --> 00:36:34.519
they'll just be mad, and which
seemed odd to me. Why his

416
00:36:34.599 --> 00:36:38.400
parents would be upset with him that
he was hurt and couldn't work. You

417
00:36:38.400 --> 00:36:44.559
know, it just seemed odd to
me. Okay, how long do you

418
00:36:44.559 --> 00:36:50.800
think this conversation took place. I
don't know, maybe twenty minutes or so,

419
00:36:50.840 --> 00:36:54.639
I'm not sure. All Right,
Dulcage showed up. She'd come.

420
00:36:54.679 --> 00:36:59.119
I wasn't expecting her, but she
had come to the house and she came

421
00:37:00.119 --> 00:37:02.039
through the house. We were sitting
on the deck and she came and was

422
00:37:02.119 --> 00:37:05.679
like, what's going on? And
I said, oh, well, I'm

423
00:37:05.719 --> 00:37:10.239
just chatting with Chandler here. And
I guess he doesn't have such good news.

424
00:37:10.280 --> 00:37:14.719
And then she came out and sat
down and asked what was going on,

425
00:37:15.079 --> 00:37:17.920
and then we started to kind of
go back over what him and I

426
00:37:17.960 --> 00:37:22.559
had talked about, to explain to
her what was happening, what kind of

427
00:37:22.599 --> 00:37:24.760
happened next in the event. So, well, then he went to go

428
00:37:24.960 --> 00:37:29.960
use the pool, because before he'd
come down and I'd asked him, you

429
00:37:30.000 --> 00:37:34.480
know, how was the pool.
He didn't answer, and so he went

430
00:37:35.199 --> 00:37:37.840
said he was going to go back
to use the pool. And then Delcia

431
00:37:37.840 --> 00:37:42.760
and I continued to talk because we
just felt something was a little odd,

432
00:37:43.159 --> 00:37:45.400
you know, so we were concerned, and her and I'd had a conversation

433
00:37:45.480 --> 00:37:50.199
about him of what was going on, and then what happened after that,

434
00:37:51.000 --> 00:37:52.239
well, I kind of got irritated. It was so hot, and I

435
00:37:52.280 --> 00:37:57.000
wanted to go swimming, and I
was waiting for him to be done using

436
00:37:57.000 --> 00:38:00.920
the pool so I could go jump
in the pool. So I said,

437
00:38:00.960 --> 00:38:04.239
look, I'm going to go get
in the pool. I'm done. You

438
00:38:04.280 --> 00:38:07.320
know, I'm hot and I'm tired, and I want to go cool off.

439
00:38:07.079 --> 00:38:10.199
And she said okay, So she
went to go get her suit and

440
00:38:10.239 --> 00:38:15.199
then her and I, I have
this little riding lawn more And so we

441
00:38:15.280 --> 00:38:17.320
got on the riding lawn mower to
go up to tell them, Hey,

442
00:38:17.400 --> 00:38:22.760
we're going to go swimming now.
And when we got up there, he

443
00:38:22.079 --> 00:38:25.519
wasn't in the pool and the cover
was still on the pool. And okay,

444
00:38:25.559 --> 00:38:30.039
so hold on the pool has a
cover? Yeah, I have like

445
00:38:30.079 --> 00:38:32.960
a like a solar heats up.
It helps get the water warm, so

446
00:38:34.000 --> 00:38:37.559
it just lays flat on the top. Sure, so it's got a little

447
00:38:37.559 --> 00:38:40.000
bubble. And obviously you have to
remove said cover to get into the pool.

448
00:38:40.079 --> 00:38:43.679
Yeah, there's times I got lazy
where I could fold it over just

449
00:38:43.719 --> 00:38:45.280
to get in, but I usually
like to take it off so I could

450
00:38:45.320 --> 00:38:47.920
have the hose. Was it folded
over so somebody could get in it?

451
00:38:49.000 --> 00:38:54.000
All? No? All right,
So the covers on the pool is Chandler

452
00:38:54.039 --> 00:38:59.000
in sight when you're over by the
pool. No. And then I when

453
00:38:59.039 --> 00:39:02.199
I looked to my r when we
came up the hill, I had the

454
00:39:02.239 --> 00:39:08.360
doors open in the shed and I
could see through the shed that his car

455
00:39:08.480 --> 00:39:15.119
was parked on the other side of
the shed. We were like, what's

456
00:39:15.159 --> 00:39:19.480
he doing? You know, what
is going on? So we drove over

457
00:39:19.559 --> 00:39:22.639
to see if he was in the
back of the car. Was he sleeping,

458
00:39:22.719 --> 00:39:24.920
what was he what was he doing? Was he smoking weed or something?

459
00:39:24.960 --> 00:39:30.920
We didn't know. So we drove
over there and with the mower and

460
00:39:30.039 --> 00:39:35.039
approached and I drove to the back
of the car because the back end was

461
00:39:35.079 --> 00:39:40.039
backed towards me. And we looked
in there and there wasn't anything in the

462
00:39:40.079 --> 00:39:45.079
car that we could see. Do
you see Chandler anywhere on your prom Because

463
00:39:45.119 --> 00:39:47.320
then we stopped and we're like,
what the heck, We're looking around,

464
00:39:47.480 --> 00:39:51.280
what's he doing? Where is he? And you know, Dulce was kind

465
00:39:51.280 --> 00:39:54.239
of upset at that moment because she's
thinking maybe he's doing drugs or something.

466
00:39:54.280 --> 00:39:58.760
She was really upset, thinking he's
doing drugs or something. What the hell's

467
00:39:58.800 --> 00:40:00.639
he doing? But I don't know, but I'm done. I'm going to

468
00:40:00.639 --> 00:40:05.039
get in the pool. I just
was hot and irritated and just didn't want

469
00:40:05.039 --> 00:40:07.639
to deal with it. And so
we left and drove and parked them over

470
00:40:07.719 --> 00:40:13.320
by the pool. So you're in
the pool. When is the next time

471
00:40:13.599 --> 00:40:17.719
you see Chandler, I'd say,
Arroyd approximately in this area. He was

472
00:40:17.760 --> 00:40:24.039
walking this way towards us, thumbing
for us. I thought maybe he was

473
00:40:24.039 --> 00:40:29.599
going to the bar, but then
he was as far that thumbing forwards us.

474
00:40:32.239 --> 00:40:36.440
Yeah, he came up to the
pool and I said, Hey,

475
00:40:36.519 --> 00:40:39.679
Chandler, I don't have my I
don't have a shirt on because I go

476
00:40:40.079 --> 00:40:43.400
shirtless in my pool. That's kind
of why I was waiting for him to

477
00:40:43.480 --> 00:40:45.599
leave, because I wanted to have
the privacy to get in my pool.

478
00:40:45.159 --> 00:40:47.559
And he said, well, if
it would be all right, I'd like

479
00:40:47.599 --> 00:40:52.000
to get in a pool. I'm
kind of sticky and I'm hot. And

480
00:40:52.639 --> 00:40:55.360
I remember looking at Dulci because I
want to be respectful, and I said,

481
00:40:55.400 --> 00:40:58.840
well, I don't have a problem
with it, Dulci, if you

482
00:40:58.920 --> 00:41:02.360
don't just kind of was shrugged,
and you know, I kind of could

483
00:41:02.400 --> 00:41:05.920
tell she didn't really like it,
but she just kind of turned and was

484
00:41:05.960 --> 00:41:13.079
sort of like whatever he he asked, is he he wants to is he

485
00:41:13.079 --> 00:41:16.239
can get in the book with us? And what? Did? What did

486
00:41:16.280 --> 00:41:30.039
you say? I was like,
I I was like no, no,

487
00:41:30.519 --> 00:41:47.719
but I say it myself, no, okay, why because Chris didn't have

488
00:41:50.519 --> 00:41:57.920
close on the top. She didn't
have a top of Okay, did chamder

489
00:41:59.159 --> 00:42:00.800
what happened next to did Chandler go
away? Did he get in the pool.

490
00:42:00.880 --> 00:42:07.920
What happened he got in the pool? What did Chandler do once he

491
00:42:07.960 --> 00:42:16.840
got in the pool. He was
just he was looking he was looking to

492
00:42:20.480 --> 00:42:24.760
the horizon, okay, and he
was was he in the water? Yes?

493
00:42:25.000 --> 00:42:28.440
How was he What was he doing
in the water physically? Was he

494
00:42:28.519 --> 00:42:32.159
moving around? Was he swimming?
He was like going on the water and

495
00:42:32.679 --> 00:42:37.480
you know, put it on water
on his body and you know, so

496
00:42:37.519 --> 00:42:39.320
you're making those motions on your arm. And this is one of those weird

497
00:42:39.320 --> 00:42:43.599
things because we have to type down
everything that's happening. How would you describe

498
00:42:43.639 --> 00:42:46.239
what he was doing when when you
put your hands on your arms like he

499
00:42:46.519 --> 00:42:50.960
was, you know, put it
on water, you know, when you

500
00:42:51.000 --> 00:42:57.519
put the water and so staring off
kind of through that field toward the horizon.

501
00:42:57.639 --> 00:43:06.679
And yes, because Chris, Chris
is behind me, and I put

502
00:43:06.800 --> 00:43:15.119
my body to kind of shield her, and but Chandler was looking to the

503
00:43:15.159 --> 00:43:20.159
horizon and then he turned around and
then he was getting in the more on

504
00:43:20.280 --> 00:43:27.360
the water and you know, he
was like on the water, like was

505
00:43:27.400 --> 00:43:37.639
he saying anything? Not much?
Okay? And was he actively swimming or

506
00:43:37.840 --> 00:43:42.000
no? He just kind of dipped
up and down and kind of was like

507
00:43:42.960 --> 00:43:46.159
washing, you know, like himself
off. He said it was kind of

508
00:43:46.679 --> 00:43:51.960
scratchy on his walk, and he's
itchy and sticky, so he was just

509
00:43:52.039 --> 00:43:55.760
kind of like, okay, kind
of washing himself, renting himself off.

510
00:43:55.880 --> 00:44:01.480
Yeah, And then it was odd
because he just seemed really different when he

511
00:44:04.119 --> 00:44:07.800
got in the pool from when he
was talking to us before. Different how

512
00:44:10.039 --> 00:44:15.519
well, he seemed more lucid,
like you just seem more present. Don

513
00:44:15.639 --> 00:44:20.599
Dulcie was starting to ask him questions
because I think she was concerned maybe he

514
00:44:20.719 --> 00:44:25.880
was doing some drugs and I think
she just wanted to sort of see if

515
00:44:25.920 --> 00:44:31.360
he was, so she started asking
him questions and things like that to see

516
00:44:31.360 --> 00:44:35.800
how he would respond. Because while
he was gone and we were in the

517
00:44:35.800 --> 00:44:37.880
pool, that's what she spoke to
me mostly about, is what's going on

518
00:44:37.960 --> 00:44:42.079
with him. I'm worried. I
don't know why he's acting this way.

519
00:44:42.920 --> 00:44:46.280
What's he doing? And he admitted
that was one of the questions. She

520
00:44:46.320 --> 00:44:49.719
says, if you're doing drugs,
Channel, I'm telling you right now,

521
00:44:50.320 --> 00:44:52.039
that's a deal breaker. And if
you ever come and he said, I

522
00:44:52.079 --> 00:44:57.719
will never ever bring drugs to the
house or I don't do drugs. How

523
00:44:57.760 --> 00:45:04.320
long was Chandler in the pool.
Oh maybe maybe fifteen minutes dish roughly,

524
00:45:04.639 --> 00:45:07.119
all right. So he got up
first, he was study. It was

525
00:45:07.119 --> 00:45:12.679
in a hurry. He had to
go that Catherine was getting dinner or something,

526
00:45:12.760 --> 00:45:15.400
and so he was like on a
mission and had to like, let's

527
00:45:15.440 --> 00:45:22.039
go and and then he got out
and went to the car drove off.

528
00:45:22.360 --> 00:45:24.920
Okay, and his car that he
went to was over there by the oil

529
00:45:25.039 --> 00:45:36.800
tank near the woodline. Right,
this is a section of the mode grass

530
00:45:36.840 --> 00:45:39.840
butting up against that prairie to the
south of the barn. Did you see

531
00:45:39.840 --> 00:45:46.639
an oil drum in that photograph?
Yes? How about you described as it

532
00:45:46.760 --> 00:45:52.119
at one o nine. There was
a cut, did you see? They're

533
00:45:52.119 --> 00:45:58.960
an odd shaped cut on the north
side of that oil drum, and inside

534
00:45:59.000 --> 00:46:05.599
were some items and one shows some
of those items inside. Yes, a

535
00:46:05.679 --> 00:46:10.360
saw blade, a scissors, and
a smaller saw with like a chroma,

536
00:46:10.360 --> 00:46:16.880
a metal handle, and the bolt
cutters, right, And that's for sure.

537
00:46:17.079 --> 00:46:22.440
Yes. And it just so happened
that my armspan was long enough that

538
00:46:22.480 --> 00:46:25.400
I could reach them because they were
deep inside the oil drum. So just

539
00:46:25.760 --> 00:46:30.960
using regular night trial evidence gloves,
I reached and I was able to pull

540
00:46:31.000 --> 00:46:37.480
them out one at a time,
without touching areas that looked like they had

541
00:46:37.639 --> 00:46:45.199
stains. We laid them out on
paper, and then CSI Leatherburry collected them

542
00:46:45.559 --> 00:46:58.960
in whatever packaging he used. If
you recall, during Chandler's interview, he

543
00:46:59.079 --> 00:47:04.920
lies to police and tells them that
he never actually visited Kres's farm on Monday,

544
00:47:05.000 --> 00:47:07.760
July fifth. He said he wanted
to, but because he couldn't get

545
00:47:07.760 --> 00:47:13.320
in touch with Kress, he ultimately
decided it would be too risky to show

546
00:47:13.400 --> 00:47:17.920
up at their farm unannounced. This
raised a question that I've spent quite a

547
00:47:17.960 --> 00:47:23.400
bit of time pondering. Why would
Chandler lie about this? I tried to

548
00:47:23.440 --> 00:47:30.880
consider all the possibilities. Is there
any chance that Chandler visited Kres and Dulce

549
00:47:30.079 --> 00:47:36.159
that day, confessed to murdering his
parents, and ask them for help with

550
00:47:36.280 --> 00:47:40.480
hiding the body. There are a
number of reasons that this doesn't add up.

551
00:47:40.920 --> 00:47:46.360
Dulce seems more empathetic to Chandler than
Kres, and even if there was

552
00:47:46.400 --> 00:47:52.119
a small possibility dulcey went along with
this, which I don't think she did.

553
00:47:52.639 --> 00:47:59.239
I cannot imagine any scenario in which
Kress would have agreed to hide a

554
00:47:59.280 --> 00:48:05.199
body on her farm for Chandler let
alone do it in such a careless way,

555
00:48:05.719 --> 00:48:08.639
hiding it under a pile of sticks, Which brings us back to the

556
00:48:08.760 --> 00:48:15.039
question yet again, why would Chandler
lie to police about this and say he

557
00:48:15.119 --> 00:48:20.280
was never there? If Cres and
Dulce and even Kat could testify that he

558
00:48:20.480 --> 00:48:24.440
was there on Monday? What was
the motive? What was the logic?

559
00:48:25.599 --> 00:48:32.039
And then I remembered something, This
is Chandler Holderson, a compulsive liar.

560
00:48:32.920 --> 00:48:37.000
There really didn't need to be much
thought behind the consequences of the lie.

561
00:48:37.719 --> 00:48:42.880
If the lie would serve him,
then he told it. It didn't matter

562
00:48:42.920 --> 00:48:47.079
if someone could easily disprove it.
All that mattered in that moment was that

563
00:48:47.119 --> 00:48:53.280
the lie benefited him. Chandler's emo
was concoct a story first and deal with

564
00:48:53.320 --> 00:49:00.320
the consequences later. Perhaps some kind
of twisted coping mechanism that he formed at

565
00:49:00.360 --> 00:49:05.760
an early age. Will probably never
know the exact reason, And for many

566
00:49:05.840 --> 00:49:09.760
years he was able to navigate life
this way. Make a mistake, tell

567
00:49:09.800 --> 00:49:16.000
a lie, get caught, tell
another lie, get caught again. Well,

568
00:49:16.360 --> 00:49:21.480
I think you get the point.
It was lies all the way down

569
00:49:22.440 --> 00:49:25.679
and in the process, good people
like Cat and her mother Dulcet, which

570
00:49:25.760 --> 00:49:30.320
is collateral damage. I've said before, and I think it's worth repeating.

571
00:49:30.960 --> 00:49:37.559
The evidence shows that no one,
not Andrew Smith, not Catherine Melender,

572
00:49:37.280 --> 00:49:44.679
not Dulcet, not Cress, no
one helped Chandler commit this crime. He

573
00:49:44.719 --> 00:49:50.360
acted only with self regard, and
he acted alone. Anyone who give him

574
00:49:50.400 --> 00:49:54.599
the benefit of the doubt, perhaps
because they were naive or perhaps because they

575
00:49:54.639 --> 00:50:00.239
wanted to believe in the goodness of
people, were crushed under the way eight

576
00:50:00.639 --> 00:50:05.800
Chandler's lies. He had so little
regard for those who loved him that he

577
00:50:05.920 --> 00:50:09.440
was willing to dump the desecrated torso
of his dead father on their farm,

578
00:50:10.039 --> 00:50:15.480
either in a half baked ploy to
intentionally implicate them or simply out of a

579
00:50:15.719 --> 00:50:22.719
complete lack of consideration. And not
only that, but then he joined them

580
00:50:22.920 --> 00:50:27.800
in their own pool for a swim, where he shamelessly washed the residue of

581
00:50:27.800 --> 00:50:31.760
his crimes into the communal water in
front of their very eyes, all the

582
00:50:31.800 --> 00:50:39.480
while playing the poor, helpless victim. But finally, on July eighth,

583
00:50:39.599 --> 00:50:45.239
twenty twenty one, perhaps for the
first time in his life, Chandler's lies

584
00:50:45.320 --> 00:50:51.280
hit a brick wall, and the
consequences were flying towards him with an immediacy

585
00:50:51.400 --> 00:50:54.880
that could not be ignored. His
scharade of a life was about to be

586
00:50:54.960 --> 00:51:00.599
exposed, not only to those closest
to him, to the entire world.

587
00:51:01.719 --> 00:51:07.559
And if you can't believe it,
the depths of his degeneracy have yet to

588
00:51:07.599 --> 00:51:50.719
be revealed. As I'm recording this
episode, it's actually May fifteenth of twenty

589
00:51:50.960 --> 00:51:54.239
twenty four, which is my birthday. And so if I could ask you

590
00:51:54.519 --> 00:52:00.119
for a birthday present, it would
be to consider joining our Patreon. You

591
00:52:00.159 --> 00:52:04.440
don't even have to do it,
just consider it. We have a couple

592
00:52:04.480 --> 00:52:08.440
of membership tiers you can cancel any
time. I truly do not take it

593
00:52:08.480 --> 00:52:13.960
personally. If you come for one
month and leave, sign up as easy,

594
00:52:14.159 --> 00:52:17.960
takes less than a minute, and
it's all available at patreon dot com

595
00:52:19.000 --> 00:52:23.400
slash Tapes from the dark Side.
What you'll get in return is our Premium

596
00:52:23.599 --> 00:52:29.679
feed. What that means is your
own unique RSS feed that is tied to

597
00:52:29.719 --> 00:52:34.800
your account that will give you access
to every single episode we've ever released,

598
00:52:35.000 --> 00:52:39.840
including our new series called Night Terrors, which are one off episodes, and

599
00:52:39.960 --> 00:52:45.880
you get everything add free and in
boosted audio quality. The normal feed is

600
00:52:46.159 --> 00:52:52.639
usually at about two hundred kilobytes per
second. This is at the maximum three

601
00:52:52.679 --> 00:52:55.960
hundred and twenty kilobytes per second.
Now, I do want to add this

602
00:52:57.159 --> 00:53:01.320
caveat that if you're struggling find antally, I do not want you to sign

603
00:53:01.400 --> 00:53:07.480
up. In fact, if you're
struggling financially, message me on Instagram at

604
00:53:07.519 --> 00:53:13.159
the dark Side Pod, and I'll
give you our night Terror episodes for free

605
00:53:13.599 --> 00:53:15.960
as long as you promise if you
hit the jackpot, you'll join Patreon later.

606
00:53:16.320 --> 00:53:21.679
The last thing I'll say is that
we're an independent podcast, meaning we

607
00:53:21.719 --> 00:53:27.440
don't have any sponsors. We don't
have anyone dictating what material I can or

608
00:53:27.599 --> 00:53:31.159
can't cover, which is a big
part of why I think people enjoy this

609
00:53:31.280 --> 00:53:37.000
podcast and why I enjoy making it. So if you enjoy this show,

610
00:53:37.360 --> 00:53:49.719
please consider joining our Patreon Patreon dot
com slash Tapes from the dark Side.

611
00:53:49.760 --> 00:53:52.840
We haven't read out our new dark
Siders for a while, so we have

612
00:53:52.280 --> 00:53:55.239
quite a few people to thank.
And it goes without saying, but I'll

613
00:53:55.239 --> 00:54:00.719
say it anyways. I am so
grateful for you guys. Someone joins,

614
00:54:00.760 --> 00:54:05.440
I see their name pop up and
It Makes My Day, Emil Green,

615
00:54:06.000 --> 00:54:12.599
Holy Crow, Jennifer Jones, Telso, Ryopel, Daniel Acton, Gina Mosher,

616
00:54:13.159 --> 00:54:19.480
Jennifer Hall, Sean Poppel, Cory, Jim Hillard, Chris Owen,

617
00:54:20.280 --> 00:54:25.679
Linus Benston, Ian Garlock, Terry
Burke, Wollen, Leslie Wilson, Ricky

618
00:54:25.719 --> 00:54:34.320
Moody, Peter Hopton, alex Ander, Mystery Lizard, Matt Ventimiglia, Kayla

619
00:54:34.400 --> 00:54:42.559
Jackman, e m Samantha, Sean, Michael, Tiltke's, Gina Southard,

620
00:54:43.239 --> 00:54:52.840
Courtney Allen and Corey Beckwith. We
have four new producers Jamie Hill and Belina,

621
00:54:52.639 --> 00:54:58.320
Jeff Long and Teddy Redman. Thank
you to all of our producers who

622
00:54:58.320 --> 00:55:05.159
we read out every episode. Melinda
Muharemovic, Jason Irvin, Jessica Cooper,

623
00:55:05.679 --> 00:55:12.440
Fiona Gibson, Jody c Sundy and
Ray They'll say Catalon, Malory Bitterman,

624
00:55:13.199 --> 00:55:19.800
Santana Savine, Vanessa Miller, Jonathan
Cox, Ginute Way, Bunco, Tyler

625
00:55:19.920 --> 00:55:24.519
Ernster, Sherry Sly, Shelley Jones, Alexis, Kathleen and Greg b.

626
00:55:30.400 --> 00:55:35.960
Thank you to twenty six hundred who
allowed us to adapt one of his songs

627
00:55:36.000 --> 00:55:40.239
for our main theme. Thank you
to Augusta Trevor Orum, who has created

628
00:55:40.360 --> 00:55:45.440
original music for our show. All
of their links can be found in the

629
00:55:45.440 --> 00:56:22.119
show notes. Until next time,
try to enjoy the daylight. Please hold

630
00:56:23.199 --> 00:56:30.960
hello. This is a free call
from an inmate from the Dane County Jail.

631
00:56:31.719 --> 00:56:37.119
To accept this free call, press
zero to refuse. This call is

632
00:56:37.119 --> 00:56:42.239
from a correction facility and is subject
to monitoring and recording. Thank you for

633
00:56:42.360 --> 00:56:49.079
using Global Telling Hell handler. Hello. Okay, I'm just trying to help

634
00:56:49.079 --> 00:56:54.199
my mom set up the phone.
Oh that was quick, picked on that

635
00:56:54.440 --> 00:57:05.440
quickly, well because he used a
free call. Yeah, I only Oh

636
00:57:05.519 --> 00:57:09.280
okay, Well, here's a momline
for five minutes. How are do you?

637
00:57:09.840 --> 00:57:17.639
I'm okay? How are you okay? Keep praying? Thank you for

638
00:57:17.679 --> 00:57:29.239
praying. I appreciate it. You're
very welcome. Oh okay, how are

639
00:57:29.280 --> 00:57:31.320
you doing? How do you feeling? Do you be? Miss Lucine?

640
00:57:32.440 --> 00:57:37.360
Sometimes I get sleep, sometimes I
don't. Usually early in the evenings I

641
00:57:37.400 --> 00:57:45.119
get the mostly eight o'clock. Can't
cut me vitamins. So I've been feeling

642
00:57:45.159 --> 00:57:53.880
a lot better. Oh good.
Yeah, and they finally started giving me

643
00:57:53.880 --> 00:58:00.679
medication, which is good. You
have a lot of the vacation. I

644
00:58:00.880 --> 00:58:07.079
just does some little things, little
things and maybe more soon. I'm not

645
00:58:07.199 --> 00:58:21.119
sure. Oh sounds like pretty soon. Oh okay, are you gonna stay

646
00:58:21.159 --> 00:58:28.840
there until January? I don't know
about myself. I'm in a mental health

647
00:58:28.920 --> 00:58:36.320
pod, so they might put me
in general population eventually. But trying to

648
00:58:36.440 --> 00:58:45.320
stay there it's more it's more safe, m for you. You know.

649
00:58:50.159 --> 00:58:57.639
Yeah, I'll try, but it's
not really up to me. I know,

650
00:59:00.199 --> 00:59:06.360
I I know. Yeah, Hey, you've gone through this, yes,

651
00:59:06.480 --> 00:59:15.039
I have. Unfortunately, yeah many
times over. I think, Ah,

652
00:59:16.280 --> 00:59:23.159
hopefully this is one time for me. Yeah, if you're in there

653
00:59:23.159 --> 00:59:29.679
again, I'll kick your ass.
Did you hear me? I probably help

654
00:59:29.760 --> 00:59:38.719
you? Did you hear? Probably
will help you. It won't happen again,

655
00:59:38.800 --> 00:59:51.800
right, No, won't. Oh
Catherine cut my hair? Oh yeah,

656
00:59:52.039 --> 00:59:53.920
I heard she did a good job
and she's pretty proud of herself.

657
00:59:55.119 --> 01:00:07.159
Yes, she is short us later
about my boy my chain. Oh wow,

658
01:00:08.760 --> 01:00:15.760
yeah, it's sure. I want
to have you have one minute remaining?

659
01:00:19.519 --> 01:00:22.800
Well, I guess you need to
call me back because they didn't say

660
01:00:22.800 --> 01:00:29.400
they have one minute. Yeah,
I'll call back right away. There's none,

661
01:00:30.119 --> 01:00:37.360
so okay, good, good about
right now? Okay, that sounds

662
01:00:37.360 --> 01:00:43.239
good, but at anytime. Guys, you want to call me in the

663
01:00:43.280 --> 01:00:49.840
morning when catin is actually like that, you know, Yeah, you can

664
01:00:49.880 --> 01:00:57.480
do okay, yes here, I'll
call you right back now. Please hold,

665
01:00:58.239 --> 01:01:04.079
please hold while we process your A
card payment. Please hold hand faster

666
01:01:05.760 --> 01:01:13.119
wash them wash your hand. Your
card was charged successfully. This call is

667
01:01:13.119 --> 01:01:17.039
from a correction facility and it is
subject to monitoring and recording. Thank you

668
01:01:17.119 --> 01:01:28.119
for using Global Telling. Hello,
hikot for me. Yeah, mom's just

669
01:01:28.199 --> 01:01:31.679
in the bathroom. She's back now. I love you more, got it?

670
01:01:34.320 --> 01:01:46.760
Hello? Hello? Huh uh last
nat Okay, I like you.

671
01:01:49.320 --> 01:01:57.280
Mallow? We model. Yeah,
it's bad today we get burgers. Well,

672
01:01:58.280 --> 01:02:02.920
so they're gonna need good but La, the bed is really bad.

673
01:02:06.039 --> 01:02:15.360
My dogs had better beds. Yeah, well I can't. If you go

674
01:02:15.559 --> 01:02:24.320
to the population, one thing you're
gonna you know, try to just stay

675
01:02:24.320 --> 01:02:37.719
away from other people, you know, and sometimes it is better to say

676
01:02:37.840 --> 01:02:42.760
what happened, like is then ask
If somebody ask you, like my husband,

677
01:02:43.400 --> 01:02:51.079
then ask you what you're here for? He will say, because I

678
01:02:51.079 --> 01:02:58.199
I try and to drop a pharmacy. If you don't say what are you

679
01:02:58.280 --> 01:03:01.639
there for, people thinking these you
are good for something else. Maybe,

680
01:03:02.800 --> 01:03:07.320
so just be careful because I can
hurt you. I don't want it to

681
01:03:07.360 --> 01:03:10.559
be hurt. Well, don't worry. You know, I'm all on the

682
01:03:10.599 --> 01:03:16.280
TV, so everyone knows I actually
belong in jail. Oh I's going to

683
01:03:16.360 --> 01:03:23.079
be thinking I'm a snitche so don't
worry. Oh okay, oh okay,

684
01:03:24.320 --> 01:03:29.320
okay, yeah please, Okay.
Plus, if you know of Gane County

685
01:03:29.320 --> 01:03:34.960
prison anywhere that I would be housed, just given what they're thinking of me,

686
01:03:35.199 --> 01:03:37.639
like I'm a crazy person. I'm
going to have my own room and

687
01:03:38.400 --> 01:03:44.480
I don't really have to worry about
other people. Okay. Well, read

688
01:03:44.599 --> 01:03:49.920
books, Okay, trying to still
keep up on some things I've read.

689
01:03:50.760 --> 01:03:57.480
I don't know, maybe twenty five
books so far. Yeah, I believe

690
01:03:57.519 --> 01:04:02.039
it. Clay Quayton was, Yeah, there's some actually really good ones that

691
01:04:02.079 --> 01:04:09.840
they've been giving me and some really
crapy ones. But yeah, okay,

692
01:04:12.400 --> 01:04:23.360
okay, I just I I kind
of worry about you and worry about Katine

693
01:04:23.400 --> 01:04:28.519
the most. No, I do
too, I mean is she's my daughter,

694
01:04:29.880 --> 01:04:34.599
and I'm just really really worried.
I'm really really worried. I want

695
01:04:34.639 --> 01:04:44.000
you to know that I understand she'll
be nice. No, you don't worry

696
01:04:44.000 --> 01:04:51.000
about her or no need to.
I don't need to reappen Cat. She

697
01:04:51.960 --> 01:04:59.360
she love your channels. You know
that she loves you so much. But

698
01:04:59.480 --> 01:05:08.400
I just worry about her when everything
comes out. Oh okay, well you

699
01:05:08.480 --> 01:05:19.079
know, but I think she'll be
fine. I hope so, I really

700
01:05:19.119 --> 01:05:26.719
hope. So. But I understand
your concern. But thank you, thank

701
01:05:26.800 --> 01:05:33.559
you. I want you to know
that you I love your life like a

702
01:05:33.679 --> 01:05:39.679
son. I appreciate that. Yeah, you've been very good to me.

703
01:05:41.800 --> 01:05:48.559
I I was a little bit jealous
that you know that you were taking Catherine

704
01:05:48.599 --> 01:05:55.960
to Florida, but I understood that
my kids have to fly. You know,

705
01:05:56.760 --> 01:06:00.559
yeah, that Catherine was my baby. It's my baby, attorney is

706
01:06:01.679 --> 01:06:09.960
it is basically the last pick I
have. James, he'll always be around.

707
01:06:10.920 --> 01:06:14.239
Oh I know, you know,
James, he just trying to be

708
01:06:14.360 --> 01:06:24.559
the big kin. But but you
know, I always respect you, and

709
01:06:24.639 --> 01:06:30.159
I always I always start, I
always start, and I always think that

710
01:06:30.360 --> 01:06:39.280
do you that you were part of
our life, that you will come to

711
01:06:39.400 --> 01:06:46.679
stay. Yeah, I appreciate that
you welcome. I thought, and I

712
01:06:46.960 --> 01:06:50.400
you know, I said that,
you know, when I get my house,

713
01:06:51.039 --> 01:06:57.800
you will help me, you know, to do that that the solar

714
01:06:57.960 --> 01:07:01.960
panels, and so I still plan
on doing that. I'm trying to,

715
01:07:02.320 --> 01:07:08.920
like, you know, invent something
with solar panels, like you know something,

716
01:07:09.760 --> 01:07:18.320
so you know, like I don't
know. Yeah, there's a house

717
01:07:18.360 --> 01:07:28.199
in Mexico. You know, I
don't know how things are. But I

718
01:07:28.280 --> 01:07:39.159
wanted to know that this is very
difficult for me, very difficult. Yeah,

719
01:07:39.320 --> 01:07:51.360
me too, And I just I
don't want to believe anything because I

720
01:07:51.760 --> 01:07:58.119
feel like I love you, but
no, I feel not like I think

721
01:07:58.639 --> 01:08:01.239
I do love you, chance like
like I said, like my son,

722
01:08:03.440 --> 01:08:09.719
and I'm very worry, I'm urious, stress, and I'm very worry about

723
01:08:09.800 --> 01:08:16.039
everything. Well, I appreciate you're
worrying about me and caring for me.

724
01:08:17.800 --> 01:08:21.880
I know. Yeah, the news
has made it sound very bad, but

725
01:08:25.560 --> 01:08:31.680
just talking to my lawyers and everything, it's not. It's much different than

726
01:08:31.720 --> 01:08:36.640
the news. The news has putting
a very bad spin on everything. I

727
01:08:36.680 --> 01:08:45.800
know. But hope you know that
I just don't I don't know what happened,

728
01:08:45.399 --> 01:08:51.159
and I don't need everybody's has for
their own reasons. Uh. I

729
01:08:51.199 --> 01:08:57.640
definitely can't talk about the case over
the phone right right, but I wanted

730
01:08:57.680 --> 01:09:02.600
to tell you that I everybody have
their own things, you know, and

731
01:09:02.680 --> 01:09:11.319
my thing is that I care about
my daughter very very much, and I

732
01:09:11.399 --> 01:09:17.039
care about you and the times that
you were here and the times that I

733
01:09:17.119 --> 01:09:28.239
make Christmas and the times that you
you know that you smile and like that.

734
01:09:28.720 --> 01:09:34.239
Like like I say, I can't
say anything better about about this boy

735
01:09:35.159 --> 01:09:41.439
because he you don't. I just
can't say anything. I appreciate it.

736
01:09:41.960 --> 01:09:45.920
Yeah, that's that's patter. That
one of the good things I've got going

737
01:09:45.000 --> 01:09:56.760
for me. I haven't caused too
much trouble. Well, did you take

738
01:09:56.800 --> 01:10:01.039
care of yourself and I was taking
care of my Captaine. I appreciate it.

739
01:10:01.560 --> 01:10:15.399
Thank you, and whatever happened,
whatever whatever happens, I'm here.

740
01:10:16.840 --> 01:10:27.039
Thank you. Thank you for that
is really nice. Well, I always

741
01:10:27.039 --> 01:10:35.399
think that, you know, I
know you're trying. Yeah, you know,

742
01:10:38.359 --> 01:10:41.560
I just don't want to hurt your
feelings, so say something iCal.

743
01:10:43.359 --> 01:10:48.279
No, it's fine, I understand
because yeah, I've seen the news as

744
01:10:48.319 --> 01:10:56.239
well, so I haven't seen it
though I not allow myself to see anything.

745
01:10:58.560 --> 01:11:05.920
There's definitely two sides to a coin. Definitely, I love you.

746
01:11:06.079 --> 01:11:14.880
Thank you for letting me call.
I'll be on the so the message me

747
01:11:15.840 --> 01:11:20.479
yes, yes, yes, and
don't and I will try and to see

748
01:11:20.520 --> 01:11:26.960
if for some for somehow I can't
try and to you to hammer stand.

749
01:11:28.720 --> 01:11:35.439
Okay, thank you and you're very
welcome, right, Please don't feel don't

750
01:11:35.479 --> 01:11:45.479
feel don't feel alone. Okay,
Guys to me or talk to me if

751
01:11:45.479 --> 01:11:48.520
you need to talk to someone,
talk to me for sure. Yeah.

752
01:11:49.039 --> 01:11:59.680
Call just gets expensive. So I
know, you know, I see if

753
01:11:59.880 --> 01:12:02.840
my husband family didn't want to hear
from him, did didn't want to talk

754
01:12:02.880 --> 01:12:10.720
to him, and didn't never want
to visit him, and he just steal

755
01:12:10.880 --> 01:12:17.359
you know, he just come at
some all the different things. But I

756
01:12:17.479 --> 01:12:24.560
know, I know how family can
you know, can be no. I

757
01:12:24.640 --> 01:12:29.760
understand why my mind isn't they've heard
what the news. News isn't good.

758
01:12:30.319 --> 01:12:32.680
I haven't heard my side because my
lawyers told me not to say my side

759
01:12:32.760 --> 01:12:39.800
to anybody. Yep, yep,
don't say anything until you have to say

760
01:12:39.840 --> 01:12:46.000
it. Yeah, yep. And
in the meantime, I haven't heard the

761
01:12:46.079 --> 01:12:54.359
news. But until the meantime you
can. You can come unan yep you

762
01:12:54.479 --> 01:12:59.720
need if you need to call me
and mad you need to see me,

763
01:12:59.840 --> 01:13:03.359
just I will come. I'm a
mom, you know, m h.

764
01:13:03.840 --> 01:13:14.640
I appreciate it, and I'm missing
Mexican, so we m We love our

765
01:13:14.720 --> 01:13:20.119
children's unconditionally. It would be nice
if they let us bring They let you

766
01:13:20.159 --> 01:13:26.920
bring food in because you're cooking is
one of the things I miss. Okay,

767
01:13:28.319 --> 01:13:30.840
well, I do you know what
I miss? I miss her?

768
01:13:31.199 --> 01:13:35.119
Do you remember when I'm trying to
learn how to do the screen role?

769
01:13:36.840 --> 01:13:47.319
Oh? Yeah, and then you
make this just the little yeah, A

770
01:13:47.680 --> 01:13:51.319
dark side God,