S11, Chapter 8: Torso

0:00 A'stz just have a quick bit of bookkeeping before we start the episode today. One note is that if you wait till the end of the episodes in this season, we've been featuring some bonus footage from the jailhouse phone calls between Chandler and Kat, and today's clip is particularly relevant, so stick around to catch that if you have a chance. I know this season's episode releases have been a little bit sporadic, but I promise that I'm getting them out to you as quickly as I'm finished editing them. I just don't want the quality to suffer because I'm rushing, and I can say with fairly high confidence that the episode after this one will be out much quicker than this one was. Another note is you may have heard in our past episodes that our Patreon membership was three dollars. I've been going back and editing that it's currently at five dollars as of May twenty twenty four. Just wanted to update you on that in case you were confused upon visiting our Patreon site. We have been keeping up with our monthly Night Terrors on Patreon. We currently have seven of those, which are independent bonus episodes, and we will have an eighth one coming around the first of next month. We'll play a quick ad and then we'll get right into the episode. If you want to skip the ads, you can always go to patreon dot com slash tapes from the dark Side. Tapes from the Dark Side contains descriptions of violence and sexuality. Listener discretion is advised.

1:45 Now at this point in the investigation, the police are out there with this woman. They're out on the farm and she says he walked out over there. And you'll hear from the detective, Detective Brett Baverstock, who is out there, and he'll tell you that his eyes kind of shifted up and he saw vultures. And I promise the photos are only going to go this far for right now. But the police walked about twenty yards into the woods and then that pile of debris under dozens of sticks, bushes in dirt, they found Bart Holderson. Now, when I say they found Bart Halderson, I need to explain that I think everyone has a bit of a fascination with the dark Side. I myself willways loved the Dark Side as well. I think it's something that everyone secretly longs form models there was just something that wasn't natural under the sticks. Did you go check it out? Yeah? I got as close as I had tone. On July eighth, twenty twenty one,

3:23 the same day that police were interviewing Chandler, they also made contact with a woman named Crescent Lesai. For the remainder of this episode, we will refer to her as Cress. Cress reported that sometime in the last week she recalled seeing vultures circling around the woods on her property, and she considered this strange. Officers drove out to Cottage Grove, where she lives, about a twenty five minute drive south of Chandler's house, due eastside the city of Madison. When officers arrived, they talked with Cress and her girlfriend, Dulce Melinder. Remember that Dulce as Kat's mother, and then the police began searching the property.

4:04 Out passed the house, Chris has a pool. It's a little hike, so she and Dulce usually used the riding lawnmower to drive out there in the summer when they want to take a dip, and it's just past the pool near clearing that leads to a tree line that police made a shocking Discovery May. Shortly before noon on July eighth, Detective Liz Allen came to my office. She said she had just had a phone call with the mother of Catherine Mellender, who was the girlfriend of Chandler Holderson, and during that phone call, shed intended to do initially just a phone interview which just kind of get some background information, but some things on that phone call alerted her to believe that we needed to follow up with a in person interview. And was that with Dulce. That was with Dulce, correct, and just briefly, if you could describe Dulce's kind of a emotional state during some of that interview.

5:02 Well, we got to the location where we agreed to interview her, which is she was in the middle of some classes, just trying to improve her education, and we sat in a side little conference room, and she was emotionally distraught. She kind of had this look of fear and panic in her eyes. Based upon our interviews with them, we determined we needed to get out to that farm right away and search it. I carefully reviewed the entirety of Dulce Melender's testimony and Ken confirmed that she was actually never asked any questions about this initial interview, and it's not covered anywhere else that I could find, but I did find this clip of her talking a little bit about Cres's farm. You were looking here guys right, Yes, but is your said yes, yes, as a farm, it's kind of in a rural area. Game. Yes, so it's Cross's Farms your image. Yes, Yes, we got engaged in May. Yes, and Crest lives in the farm her, Yes, you go off. I live part time there.

6:27 Yes, it's like a paradise. It's peaceful, it's green, and it's flowers that you don't see. It's just it's just beautiful. It's probably thirty to forty acres. A lot of it is wooded. The house sits in a wooded area. There's a paved driveway that goes up from the road and it kind of turns off to where the house is, and then if you kept going straight on that, it would turn into a gravel and then up into the grass area would be where like the back shed was in the pool and the raspberries. And then while I was on the way, I contacted Barry Ermin from the Dane County Medical Examiner's Office and asked him to respond with his cadaver dog to help us do the search. I got there and nobody was there. I had expected Chris and duel Say to meet me to beat me there. I went to the house, knocked on the door, and nobody answered. And I got worried that they went up and started searching on their own. So I went up there. I went up into the grass area like you can see you have a photo of the farm there, so I could see whether or not anybody was back by there. And you know, I noticed, you know, during my contact with Chris, you did

7:59 talk that she had recently seen vultures circling over the property. And I'm going to Jack, does hearsay, sure, sustained. Did you yourself at some point see some birds over the woods? Yes? And what were those birds? Turkey vultures? And did that raise red flags to you? Oh? Yeah? Why? You know, most birds really don't have a sense of smell, except for turkey vultures. Turkey vultures. Actually, you know, when the body, when a body, or an animal or a creature dies, it starts going through some changes. The microorganisms on there start producing different gases and it emanates an odor. Turkey vultures can smell that, and when they do, they'll start circling the area to locate where it's coming from.

8:46 Did you find Crests and Dulce as you walked back there? Eventually I walked up there. I didn't see them, and then Dulce or Crest came out of the back sliding patio door and met me. I asked her if she could show me again where she had seen Chandler back by the woods, and we walked back up to the the area of the shed and she showed me. When you say she showed you, did she point physically? Yes, she did what we were saying here, Okay, she pointed, okay, physically put her hand up and pointed. I would say that the witness just pointed to toward the woodline, approximately a foot below that barn, where the barn is at that point. What did you do? Well? My partners hadn't arrived yet, so I asked for Crest to go back and wait in the house, and I told it my partners would be here soon and we'd start doing our search. As you got over toward let's say that junk pile before the grass gets longer there, did you see any signs. That's a card been over there? Yes, what did you see? Well, Detective Blank pointed it out first. He pointed over and he said, well, looks cars driven through the tall grass over here. Yeah, it does.

10:03 So we went over there and we saw there were two tracks of the taller grass. The grass is probably about, you know, waist high. They went back probably about to an area where there were some white wooden boxes at old bee hives that were just kind of stored along the tree line. And that's before you entered the woods. Correct, that's before I entered the woods. Eighty seven. What are we looking at there? So the picture doesn't show it as much, but there's again you can see the vegetation in the ground there, but it was very directional as far as this area to see, like this log, the vegetation had been trampled down, so it's hard to tell from this picture. But there's actually a downward slope here. You know, if the trees weren't here, it would be a good little sledging hill for little kids. But there's like a downward slope that goes down into you can see like a little brush pile down there. Okay, eighty eight what are we looking at? There more of the trample grass that goes to this log that goes across, and then you can see they get the green moss on the log, but there's areas where the green moss had been scraped off, as if something had scraped it off. Did you notice anything ultimately beyond that log at this point, Yeah, the pile of sticks on the other side of the log, and there was just something that wasn't natural under

11:41 the sticks. Did you go check it out? Yeah? I got as close as I had to eighty nine the photo, just moving a little bit closer, yep, and again you see the scrapes on the log there, just under the moss, and then you can see the pile of sticks there, and there's something underneath it. I couldn't quite tell what it was right away, so I stepped over the log and got a little bit of a closer look. And what did you find? I didn't know what it was at first. You mean by that, It's just it took me a while to process what I was seeing, you know. Then it was became obvious that I was looking at a human Torso, okay, so we're gonna move a little bit closer to photograph ninety and again we're starting to maybe be able to see that what you saw that day, Yes, under those sticks.

12:50 Okay, going to ninety one, a different view of kind of looking at through those sticks. Yeah, and that this is about the view that I had. You can see the flesh color skin on the right and the belt pants and a black rope attached to it. Knows you can see the rope coming out from the bottom of the stickpile. We're going to go to the next photo, which is ninety two, just a close up of under those sticks. Yes. At this point, Council, I will caution and remind the jurors that obviously, at some point these photographs will become more explicit as necessary for the state's case in chief, and I just remind you to observe them for whatever length of time you believe is necessary as a juror to do your job. If anyone needs a pause, we'll be happy to do that.

13:52 And I know Attorney Brown or other council if they're using any of these photos, will alert you every time the photo is going to change that if you have diverted your gaze, you'll know to look back to see the next photo, just as Judge John Hyland did for the jury. I'm now going to issue a warning for our listeners, not about anything that you'll hear, although it is graphic, but about a photograph that I've included in the show notes, a photograph of Bart Halderson's Torso it's in a separate link from the case pictures that I usually include, and I will advise you to click this link with caution. Now. The photo is not necessarily the most graphic thing I've ever seen. In fact, it was live streamed on Facebook and YouTube during the trial. I don't know whether that was on accident or on purpose.

14:45 And while it is explicit, I've seen a lot of core throughout my years. If you'll remember the Jesse Washington lynching case from season two, those photographs had brought me to tears. I also grew up in the era where we watched literal beheading videos on the high school computers, and I don't really seek that kind of content out these days unless I have to for a case. But this picture, in combination with my closeness to the case, has led to some quite vivid nightmares, the dreadfield type, the one where you wake up in a cold sweat. So the pictures there if you'd like to view it. I won't judge you either way, but if you do, decide to just understand the choice you're making, because it's one you cannot reverse.

15:37 Please continue, thank you. Okay, we'll go to the next photo. Ninety three. What are we looking at there? That's the rope that was attached to the body. Ninety four that's a garbage canon. And where was that in relation to the torso? So in relation to so this is back up closer to the top of the hill, off to the right out of picture would be where the beehive boxes were, Okay, And that tarp was out there around the time you found the torso, or that that garbage can. The garbage can was there, and there was the tarp was inside of it. Now moving back obviously, number ninety six, we're back to looking at that pile of sticks. Correct, correct, We're looking at the human torso underneath the pile of sticks. Was it a considerable pile of debris on top of the torso if you could describe it in any way you could you know it wasn't natural to It looked like it had been accumulated and placed on top number ninety eight. What am I looking at there? You're looking at the torso with I believe that's going to be the most obvious sign would be like the right shoulder with the arm severed off, the head missing.

17:03 Obviously, the torso needed to be removed from the from the area it was in and taken somewhere else. Yes, that was done by the medical examiner. Correct. Doctors came out and helped with that. Yes, And I'm gonna go to the last exhibit one O seven. After the torso was rolled over, something was found underneath it. Black item. Correct, Yeah, you could see it even when the torso it was sticking out from underneath it. It was a black T shirt. You can see the many maggots that were crawling around the shirt and around the wounds on the torso. Okay, judge, can we shut this off? We mentioned this at the beginning of the episode, and it just so happens that at the time that the truth of this case was being exposed visually, it was also being exposed audibly.

18:03 As on the afternoon of July eighth, Chandler and Cat were taken to the police station and held in separate interrogation rooms. We've heard a bit of Cat's testimony. What is her memory of that Fourth of July weekend at Cres's farm. So the fourth you're at your farm, my mom and you're having a like with the whole family get together. We ate inside. Mom and Crass were mostly inside, but they're outside every now and then. We don't really go past the wildflowers because you know, Cres gets paid for by the state to like you know now, used to pest the size protect the flowers because then that brings in bees. We stopped at the chicken coop so I can take a picture with Chandler's chicken Hawkeye. So this is while you're given the tour with your brother and his girlfriend. No, they kind of like their own thing. The chicken coop thing was like they were doing their thing.

19:03 Is there a barn. There's a barn, but I didn't really venture in there except to bring my brother's cooler in there because he made us haul it there, and I said, we're taking your girl back. I'm not hauling that too. The barn at all, not that I recall, But there was where a point where he was changing because he kept a swim sooner his tallow in my car, okay, and I changed inside, but he like just went on the other side of the car that's like close to the barn, like you know where the gas tank is, Like we were parked kind of there, and he was on the passenger side, so he was next to like the barn and gas tank area changing. And I have a video of us by the pool at the farm after we had dinner. I think, did you make dinner at three thirty? I think we had it around like maybe three point five. I'm almost not happy. It was good.

20:03 She made crab salad. Yes, on the fourth, five thirty pm. That is Chandler cleaning the bog's up. Cool, says right there at the top in the days I have their each your life a lot cool. And then we left around six point thirty because he had to be home before eight to feed the dogs their dinner. When he's at your farm, mistaken was he were you guys at to pull the whole time? Or is he walking around the property at all? Mm hmmm. I mean we went on walks together, but walking's hard for him. Sure, It's not like he could run away, And I wouldn't say him, but we were on each other the whole time. What's the furtherest you guys walk You think it's a big property out here? Yeah, probably the furthest we was so it's like pool here, Raspberry patch where we go Raspberry right over here is barn. Started walking back that way, you'll pass them all berry tree, the grapes, get to the house on the other side, like a little to the corner of the house, there's like a little shed where we have the chickens to the barn. So not really that far, okay, all around each other, according to Kat. Chandler returned to Cottage Grove the next day, this time by himself. Chandler went to the farm because my mom's fiance lets him

21:37 walk in the pool, because that's one of the things we did Sunday, because it helps stretch out his legs, make him feel better. Because I also helped stretch his legs on Friday because he has some like it's not tired, numbness, that's the word. And then from its fall. He had a couple of weeks back on Monday, he said, he walked off by himself, but he was going to cry, so I'm he walked off by himself little cry. Yeah, I was upset about it if Mam Hald text him on Sunday saying that the job things though all the job there? Yeah, and when did you find out about the job of that Monday? Yes, because it was right after's appointment, because they like called him a chardon.

22:18 Okay, the Chandler's version of events is a little bit different. I try to go to the farm and I keep spam and Cress and spam and Cress. I kind of need someone to talk to because freaking out about my parts. Never picked up from Cress, so I go home. Did you drive over to the farm or yeah? Yeah, yeah, because she wasn't answering her phone right, So I got close. But then I realized I can't just show up. They'd shoot me. I don't know when I drive or it looked like with a hat on they had guns over there. What they actually show you? No, IM saying her dad lives there. He's he's ninety. He got a buck when he was ninety five or something, so I know if he didn't know what it was, he could have Yeah.

23:14 So he's he's old, but he can use the gun. That's why I wouldn't do that. Yeah. So the cress's dad lives there too. Yeah, who's played is it Criss Farmer? It's her dad's he built it, oh god. And then she lives there. She's managing the property because he's in the chair. Yeah, he's old. So then it's not really a farm and said hobby. Yeah, yeah, you know the background. I think right. Yeah, Like so, so I think it's time to start talking about what happens your parents, like the truthful version. Okay, okay, so we have like twenty pages of writing. Let I start with a clean white piece of paper. If you just start telling the truth, what because, listen, listen to me. This is the only chance you're going to have to tell us the truth. Okay, Okay, what we listen? Listen. Okay, I can't tell you what we know. What we know. You're not telling us the truth. We know your parents are no longer with us, okay, and we know the reason why. Okay, we need to tell the truth. There's listen, listen. You need to tell the truth about what happened, and just tell us why it happened.

24:33 Okay. If something happened, if you were defending yourself, or if you just fed up with stuff. You need to tell us the truth. Okay, this is your chance to tell us why. Okay, I'll not being essen yet. Okay, so can we do that? Okay, they're okay nowhere. I'm sorry shaving and tr with the lawyer because therapy. You want a layer, yeah, okay, okay, yeah, that's right to temmy. Marri's about six or four you want you're unterested, Okay. At this point, police knew that Chandler was being untruthful about a number of key facts regarding the disappearance of his parents, and he was taken into custody in charge with providing false information on a missing person's case. What happened? Okay, you can you know what happened. We're not gonna told you what happened.

25:52 You know what happened. You were there when it happened. We're not b and okay I wasn't there. We're gonna happen. We know more than you think. We know all that asked. There's people that have told us things. We have. We have evidence with group Mores had. Okay, so your parents never made it to the cabinet. I think you know that, Okay, sore asking for an attorney, We're not gonna ask any more questions as him stay at about them over here. Yeah. It wasn't until a week later, on July fifteenth, when they would formally charge him with the death of his father, part Halderson, first degree intentional homicide and one million dollars bail. The police report gives us a couple of key insights into the moments directly after Chandler Holderson's arrest. Quote, as Detective Hendrickson and Chandler were walking towards booking, he made an unsolicited comment that he wanted to quote go back up and he would quote tell me everything. Detective Hendrickson inform Chandler he could not speak to him any longer regarding his missing parents, as he had invoked his right to an attorney only minutes earlier. Chandler then asked something to the extent of quote, what if I want to tell you everything with

27:25 an attorney there to guide me. Detective Hendrickson inform Chandler that would be entirely his decision to make at a later time, but at this point he was not going to be questioning him any further about his missing parents. Chandler then proceeded to make another unsolicited comment that he again quote wanted to tell me everything. During the course of completing the booking paperwork, specifically the booking sheet and the medical intake questionnaire, Chandler asked something to the effect of quote what was different. Detective Hendrickson's response to Handler at that point in time was that they had quote found something, and Chandler became very wide eyed, similar to a prior reaction that he had made during the interview before invoking his attorney, and then he made a comment to the extent of quote, he don't know the whole story. During the course of completing the booking questionnaire, detective Hendrickson asked Chandler if he was suicidal, and his response to Detective Hendrickson's question was that he quote didn't feel bad about what I did. Plenty reports his observations of Chandler while taking pictures was that he had bruising on the backside of one of his upper arms. The coloration appeared to be purple and yellow. Plenty observed there was bruising to the lower portion of Chandler's legs and the knee area.

28:48 Plenty observed in both left and right lower legs that were scratches present. He scratches appeared narrow and wid and looked consistent as if someone had been walking through barrier briar bushes, the same type of briar bushes that were ever president in the woods on Cress's farm at Cottage Grove, where Chandler had hidden his father's torso under a pile of sticks. We'll be right back after a quick break. Don't go anywhere. You just seemed kind of off, like, kind of weird, actually, Crescent Lessai, c R E S E N T l apostrophe s Ai and miss Lasai. Do you know somebody by the name of Dulce Milander? Yes? I do. How do you know her?

29:52 Oh, she's my girlfriend? Okay? And does she refer to you often as Cress? Yes, everyone mostly does Ken as well. And do you know somebody by the name of Catherine Milander? Yes? I do. How do you know her? I know her through Dulcie, she's her daughter, and through Katherine, her cat. Did you become acquainted with somebody by the name of Chandler Halderson Yes, before July fourth weekend? How many times approximately had Chandler been out to your property? Oh? I couldn't say exactly. I could give you an estimate. Sure, an esmen is just fine, like ten or twelve times maybe, Okay. And did he ever come out there prior to the July fourth weekend by himself or was he always with somebody else? He always was with someone else. He'd never come out there alone before that I'm aware of, Okay, And generally I assume that was his girlfriend Kat. Yeah, she was always with him. How did mister Halderson behave on that day? Well, he kind of seemed a little loud, not like hisself. You've described that. What do you mean by that?

31:07 He just seemed kind of off, like kind of weird. Actually, okay, I mean I remember asking him how he felt, you know, because I just you just kind of seem okay. You asked him how he felt. What did do you remember how he responded? Yeah, he just said, oh, you know, I'm I'm doing okay, or doing the best that I can. And because he had an accident, he's fell down the stairs or something, so I thought maybe it was because of the accident that he was acting off. Sure was he displaying any physical symptoms on July fourth? Not that I not that I saw no. Okay, was he wearing a neck brace at all on July fourth when you saw him? No?

31:55 Did he act in any way that he seemed like disabled? Did he have any trouble walking or anything like that? No, I didn't notice that. Okay, Well, shortly after he was done eating or kids were sitting at the table in my family room and they had gotten up, and I was kind of walking towards the kitchen, and he approached me and asked me if he could have my phone number, my personal phone number, because he wanted to know if he could come and use the pool. Okay, did you give him your number? Yeah? I gave him my cell number, and I also gave him my landline. We actually have a recording the voicemail that Chandler left for Crescent Masailles, Hilander. I just got back with some pretty terrible news, doctor, so I was wondering if I could come by.

32:52 I'll take at the pool hang out on not having the most ideal day, I suppose well called me back. Nineteen year old eight three eight four five four nine, Thank you right Monday cool twenty five pm. Did you have any interactions with Chandler on Monday July fifth. Yes, the first interaction was I opened up my window. I I live in a two story and I saw a car in my driveway and it didn't recognize the car and someone was standing in my driveway and it was it was Chandler. So I opened the window because he was kind of standing holding his phone and I'm looking around, and so I opened the window and I said, I asked him if he was okay, and he said yeah. And I said, oh, I said, are you here to use the pool? And he said yeah, would that be all right? And I said, yeah, sure. Were you expecting Chandler that day? No? Okay? Do you remember about what time he showed up to use your pool? Just approximate if you remember it was it was in the afternoon. I just remember coming in. It was really hot that day. I was working on a project and so I came in to get a drink of water. So it was probably mid afternoon, is sho. I would say, Okay, So what happened after you told

34:23 Chandler he could use the pool? Well, he drove up, you know, because if you come I live on a hill and when you come to the driveway, it's kind of in the middle of the hill and so you have to drive further up the hill to where the pool is. So he drove up there. I was putting a ramp so that my father and my brother could get up and down the deck in there on the scooter in the wheelchairs, okay. And so when I was working on that, he'd come down. Come there's a hill that comes leads down to my house, and he'd come walking down that hill. And then we had a conversation. What did you guys talk about? Well, he was telling me about his accident.

35:15 He said he was at a doctor's appointment, and so he was talking to me about what the doctor had said and what was going on. Did he tell you when that appointment had been I don't remember, Okay, What did he say occurred? Well, he told me that he had like damage and I asked him where. He said, in this area of his head, in the back of his head, and he's just like said his mind was kind of messed up and wasn't thinking so well. I asked him, you know, basically, how he was overall doing and about his job, because he said he was getting a new job in Florida, And I asked him about that was what did he say? Well, he said that he probably wasn't going to get the job, that some manager had told him that it wasn't going to work out because of his injury, that he wasn't able to work. When I asked him, you know, would he talk to his parents? You know, maybe could he talk to them or you know, things like that, just to try to reassure him, because he just seemed upset about this news that he had gotten from the doctor. Sure, And what did he respond to that? And his responses He says, no, they'll just be mad, and which seemed odd to me. Why his parents would be upset with him that he was hurt and couldn't work. You know, it just seemed odd to me. Okay, how long do you think this conversation took place. I don't know, maybe twenty minutes or so,

36:50 I'm not sure. All Right, Dulcage showed up. She'd come. I wasn't expecting her, but she had come to the house and she came through the house. We were sitting on the deck and she came and was like, what's going on? And I said, oh, well, I'm just chatting with Chandler here. And I guess he doesn't have such good news. And then she came out and sat down and asked what was going on, and then we started to kind of go back over what him and I had talked about, to explain to her what was happening, what kind of happened next in the event. So, well, then he went to go use the pool, because before he'd come down and I'd asked him, you know, how was the pool. He didn't answer, and so he went said he was going to go back to use the pool. And then Delcia and I continued to talk because we just felt something was a little odd, you know, so we were concerned, and her and I'd had a conversation about him of what was going on, and then what happened after that, well, I kind of got irritated. It was so hot, and I wanted to go swimming, and I was waiting for him to be done using the pool so I could go jump in the pool. So I said, look, I'm going to go get in the pool. I'm done. You know, I'm hot and I'm tired, and I want to go cool off.

38:07 And she said okay, So she went to go get her suit and then her and I, I have this little riding lawn more And so we got on the riding lawn mower to go up to tell them, Hey, we're going to go swimming now. And when we got up there, he wasn't in the pool and the cover was still on the pool. And okay, so hold on the pool has a cover? Yeah, I have like a like a solar heats up. It helps get the water warm, so it just lays flat on the top. Sure, so it's got a little bubble. And obviously you have to remove said cover to get into the pool. Yeah, there's times I got lazy where I could fold it over just to get in, but I usually like to take it off so I could have the hose. Was it folded over so somebody could get in it?

38:49 All? No? All right, So the covers on the pool is Chandler in sight when you're over by the pool. No. And then I when I looked to my r when we came up the hill, I had the doors open in the shed and I could see through the shed that his car was parked on the other side of the shed. We were like, what's he doing? You know, what is going on? So we drove over to see if he was in the back of the car. Was he sleeping, what was he what was he doing? Was he smoking weed or something? We didn't know. So we drove over there and with the mower and approached and I drove to the back of the car because the back end was backed towards me. And we looked in there and there wasn't anything in the car that we could see. Do you see Chandler anywhere on your prom Because then we stopped and we're like, what the heck, We're looking around, what's he doing? Where is he? And you know, Dulce was kind of upset at that moment because she's thinking maybe he's doing drugs or something.

39:54 She was really upset, thinking he's doing drugs or something. What the hell's he doing? But I don't know, but I'm done. I'm going to get in the pool. I just was hot and irritated and just didn't want to deal with it. And so we left and drove and parked them over by the pool. So you're in the pool. When is the next time you see Chandler, I'd say, Arroyd approximately in this area. He was walking this way towards us, thumbing for us. I thought maybe he was going to the bar, but then he was as far that thumbing forwards us. Yeah, he came up to the pool and I said, Hey, Chandler, I don't have my I don't have a shirt on because I go shirtless in my pool. That's kind of why I was waiting for him to leave, because I wanted to have the privacy to get in my pool.

40:45 And he said, well, if it would be all right, I'd like to get in a pool. I'm kind of sticky and I'm hot. And I remember looking at Dulci because I want to be respectful, and I said, well, I don't have a problem with it, Dulci, if you don't just kind of was shrugged, and you know, I kind of could tell she didn't really like it, but she just kind of turned and was sort of like whatever he he asked, is he he wants to is he can get in the book with us? And what? Did? What did you say? I was like, I I was like no, no, but I say it myself, no, okay, why because Chris didn't have close on the top. She didn't have a top of Okay, did chamder what happened next to did Chandler go away? Did he get in the pool.

42:00 What happened he got in the pool? What did Chandler do once he got in the pool. He was just he was looking he was looking to the horizon, okay, and he was was he in the water? Yes? How was he What was he doing in the water physically? Was he moving around? Was he swimming? He was like going on the water and you know, put it on water on his body and you know, so you're making those motions on your arm. And this is one of those weird things because we have to type down everything that's happening. How would you describe what he was doing when when you put your hands on your arms like he was, you know, put it on water, you know, when you put the water and so staring off kind of through that field toward the horizon.

42:57 And yes, because Chris, Chris is behind me, and I put my body to kind of shield her, and but Chandler was looking to the horizon and then he turned around and then he was getting in the more on the water and you know, he was like on the water, like was he saying anything? Not much? Okay? And was he actively swimming or no? He just kind of dipped up and down and kind of was like washing, you know, like himself off. He said it was kind of scratchy on his walk, and he's itchy and sticky, so he was just kind of like, okay, kind of washing himself, renting himself off.

43:55 Yeah, And then it was odd because he just seemed really different when he got in the pool from when he was talking to us before. Different how well, he seemed more lucid, like you just seem more present. Don Dulcie was starting to ask him questions because I think she was concerned maybe he was doing some drugs and I think she just wanted to sort of see if he was, so she started asking him questions and things like that to see how he would respond. Because while he was gone and we were in the pool, that's what she spoke to me mostly about, is what's going on with him. I'm worried. I don't know why he's acting this way.

44:42 What's he doing? And he admitted that was one of the questions. She says, if you're doing drugs, Channel, I'm telling you right now, that's a deal breaker. And if you ever come and he said, I will never ever bring drugs to the house or I don't do drugs. How long was Chandler in the pool. Oh maybe maybe fifteen minutes dish roughly, all right. So he got up first, he was study. It was in a hurry. He had to go that Catherine was getting dinner or something, and so he was like on a mission and had to like, let's go and and then he got out and went to the car drove off. Okay, and his car that he went to was over there by the oil tank near the woodline. Right, this is a section of the mode grass butting up against that prairie to the south of the barn. Did you see an oil drum in that photograph? Yes? How about you described as it at one o nine. There was a cut, did you see? They're an odd shaped cut on the north side of that oil drum, and inside were some items and one shows some of those items inside. Yes, a saw blade, a scissors, and a smaller saw with like a chroma, a metal handle, and the bolt cutters, right, And that's for sure.

46:17 Yes. And it just so happened that my armspan was long enough that I could reach them because they were deep inside the oil drum. So just using regular night trial evidence gloves, I reached and I was able to pull them out one at a time, without touching areas that looked like they had stains. We laid them out on paper, and then CSI Leatherburry collected them in whatever packaging he used. If you recall, during Chandler's interview, he lies to police and tells them that he never actually visited Kres's farm on Monday, July fifth. He said he wanted to, but because he couldn't get in touch with Kress, he ultimately decided it would be too risky to show up at their farm unannounced. This raised a question that I've spent quite a bit of time pondering. Why would Chandler lie about this? I tried to consider all the possibilities. Is there any chance that Chandler visited Kres and Dulce that day, confessed to murdering his parents, and ask them for help with hiding the body. There are a number of reasons that this doesn't add up.

47:40 Dulce seems more empathetic to Chandler than Kres, and even if there was a small possibility dulcey went along with this, which I don't think she did. I cannot imagine any scenario in which Kress would have agreed to hide a body on her farm for Chandler let alone do it in such a careless way, hiding it under a pile of sticks, Which brings us back to the question yet again, why would Chandler lie to police about this and say he was never there? If Cres and Dulce and even Kat could testify that he was there on Monday? What was the motive? What was the logic?

48:25 And then I remembered something, This is Chandler Holderson, a compulsive liar. There really didn't need to be much thought behind the consequences of the lie. If the lie would serve him, then he told it. It didn't matter if someone could easily disprove it. All that mattered in that moment was that the lie benefited him. Chandler's emo was concoct a story first and deal with the consequences later. Perhaps some kind of twisted coping mechanism that he formed at an early age. Will probably never know the exact reason, And for many years he was able to navigate life this way. Make a mistake, tell a lie, get caught, tell another lie, get caught again. Well, I think you get the point. It was lies all the way down and in the process, good people like Cat and her mother Dulcet, which is collateral damage. I've said before, and I think it's worth repeating.

49:30 The evidence shows that no one, not Andrew Smith, not Catherine Melender, not Dulcet, not Cress, no one helped Chandler commit this crime. He acted only with self regard, and he acted alone. Anyone who give him the benefit of the doubt, perhaps because they were naive or perhaps because they wanted to believe in the goodness of people, were crushed under the way eight Chandler's lies. He had so little regard for those who loved him that he was willing to dump the desecrated torso of his dead father on their farm, either in a half baked ploy to intentionally implicate them or simply out of a complete lack of consideration. And not only that, but then he joined them in their own pool for a swim, where he shamelessly washed the residue of his crimes into the communal water in front of their very eyes, all the while playing the poor, helpless victim. But finally, on July eighth, twenty twenty one, perhaps for the first time in his life, Chandler's lies hit a brick wall, and the consequences were flying towards him with an immediacy that could not be ignored. His scharade of a life was about to be exposed, not only to those closest to him, to the entire world.

51:01 And if you can't believe it, the depths of his degeneracy have yet to be revealed. As I'm recording this episode, it's actually May fifteenth of twenty twenty four, which is my birthday. And so if I could ask you for a birthday present, it would be to consider joining our Patreon. You don't even have to do it, just consider it. We have a couple of membership tiers you can cancel any time. I truly do not take it personally. If you come for one month and leave, sign up as easy, takes less than a minute, and it's all available at patreon dot com slash Tapes from the dark Side. What you'll get in return is our Premium feed. What that means is your own unique RSS feed that is tied to your account that will give you access to every single episode we've ever released,

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53:16 The last thing I'll say is that we're an independent podcast, meaning we don't have any sponsors. We don't have anyone dictating what material I can or can't cover, which is a big part of why I think people enjoy this podcast and why I enjoy making it. So if you enjoy this show, please consider joining our Patreon Patreon dot com slash Tapes from the dark Side. We haven't read out our new dark Siders for a while, so we have quite a few people to thank. And it goes without saying, but I'll say it anyways. I am so grateful for you guys. Someone joins, I see their name pop up and It Makes My Day, Emil Green, Holy Crow, Jennifer Jones, Telso, Ryopel, Daniel Acton, Gina Mosher, Jennifer Hall, Sean Poppel, Cory, Jim Hillard, Chris Owen, Linus Benston, Ian Garlock, Terry Burke, Wollen, Leslie Wilson, Ricky Moody, Peter Hopton, alex Ander, Mystery Lizard, Matt Ventimiglia, Kayla Jackman, e m Samantha, Sean, Michael, Tiltke's, Gina Southard, Courtney Allen and Corey Beckwith. We have four new producers Jamie Hill and Belina,

54:52 Jeff Long and Teddy Redman. Thank you to all of our producers who we read out every episode. Melinda Muharemovic, Jason Irvin, Jessica Cooper, Fiona Gibson, Jody c Sundy and Ray They'll say Catalon, Malory Bitterman, Santana Savine, Vanessa Miller, Jonathan Cox, Ginute Way, Bunco, Tyler Ernster, Sherry Sly, Shelley Jones, Alexis, Kathleen and Greg b. Thank you to twenty six hundred who allowed us to adapt one of his songs for our main theme. Thank you to Augusta Trevor Orum, who has created original music for our show. All of their links can be found in the show notes. Until next time, try to enjoy the daylight. Please hold

56:23 hello. This is a free call from an inmate from the Dane County Jail. To accept this free call, press zero to refuse. This call is from a correction facility and is subject to monitoring and recording. Thank you for using Global Telling Hell handler. Hello. Okay, I'm just trying to help my mom set up the phone. Oh that was quick, picked on that quickly, well because he used a free call. Yeah, I only Oh okay, Well, here's a momline for five minutes. How are do you?

57:09 I'm okay? How are you okay? Keep praying? Thank you for praying. I appreciate it. You're very welcome. Oh okay, how are you doing? How do you feeling? Do you be? Miss Lucine? Sometimes I get sleep, sometimes I don't. Usually early in the evenings I get the mostly eight o'clock. Can't cut me vitamins. So I've been feeling a lot better. Oh good. Yeah, and they finally started giving me medication, which is good. You have a lot of the vacation. I just does some little things, little things and maybe more soon. I'm not sure. Oh sounds like pretty soon. Oh okay, are you gonna stay there until January? I don't know about myself. I'm in a mental health pod, so they might put me in general population eventually. But trying to stay there it's more it's more safe, m for you. You know.

58:50 Yeah, I'll try, but it's not really up to me. I know, I I know. Yeah, Hey, you've gone through this, yes, I have. Unfortunately, yeah many times over. I think, Ah, hopefully this is one time for me. Yeah, if you're in there again, I'll kick your ass. Did you hear me? I probably help you? Did you hear? Probably will help you. It won't happen again, right, No, won't. Oh Catherine cut my hair? Oh yeah, I heard she did a good job and she's pretty proud of herself.

59:55 Yes, she is short us later about my boy my chain. Oh wow, yeah, it's sure. I want to have you have one minute remaining? Well, I guess you need to call me back because they didn't say they have one minute. Yeah, I'll call back right away. There's none, so okay, good, good about right now? Okay, that sounds good, but at anytime. Guys, you want to call me in the morning when catin is actually like that, you know, Yeah, you can do okay, yes here, I'll call you right back now. Please hold, please hold while we process your A card payment. Please hold hand faster wash them wash your hand. Your card was charged successfully. This call is from a correction facility and it is subject to monitoring and recording. Thank you for using Global Telling. Hello, hikot for me. Yeah, mom's just

1:01:28 in the bathroom. She's back now. I love you more, got it? Hello? Hello? Huh uh last nat Okay, I like you. Mallow? We model. Yeah, it's bad today we get burgers. Well, so they're gonna need good but La, the bed is really bad. My dogs had better beds. Yeah, well I can't. If you go to the population, one thing you're gonna you know, try to just stay away from other people, you know, and sometimes it is better to say what happened, like is then ask If somebody ask you, like my husband, then ask you what you're here for? He will say, because I I try and to drop a pharmacy. If you don't say what are you

1:02:58 there for, people thinking these you are good for something else. Maybe, so just be careful because I can hurt you. I don't want it to be hurt. Well, don't worry. You know, I'm all on the TV, so everyone knows I actually belong in jail. Oh I's going to be thinking I'm a snitche so don't worry. Oh okay, oh okay, okay, yeah please, Okay. Plus, if you know of Gane County prison anywhere that I would be housed, just given what they're thinking of me, like I'm a crazy person. I'm going to have my own room and I don't really have to worry about other people. Okay. Well, read books, Okay, trying to still keep up on some things I've read.

1:03:50 I don't know, maybe twenty five books so far. Yeah, I believe it. Clay Quayton was, Yeah, there's some actually really good ones that they've been giving me and some really crapy ones. But yeah, okay, okay, I just I I kind of worry about you and worry about Katine the most. No, I do too, I mean is she's my daughter, and I'm just really really worried. I'm really really worried. I want you to know that I understand she'll be nice. No, you don't worry about her or no need to. I don't need to reappen Cat. She she love your channels. You know that she loves you so much. But I just worry about her when everything comes out. Oh okay, well you know, but I think she'll be fine. I hope so, I really hope. So. But I understand your concern. But thank you, thank

1:05:26 you. I want you to know that you I love your life like a son. I appreciate that. Yeah, you've been very good to me. I I was a little bit jealous that you know that you were taking Catherine to Florida, but I understood that my kids have to fly. You know, yeah, that Catherine was my baby. It's my baby, attorney is it is basically the last pick I have. James, he'll always be around.

1:06:10 Oh I know, you know, James, he just trying to be the big kin. But but you know, I always respect you, and I always I always start, I always start, and I always think that do you that you were part of our life, that you will come to stay. Yeah, I appreciate that you welcome. I thought, and I you know, I said that, you know, when I get my house, you will help me, you know, to do that that the solar panels, and so I still plan on doing that. I'm trying to, like, you know, invent something with solar panels, like you know something, so you know, like I don't know. Yeah, there's a house in Mexico. You know, I don't know how things are. But I wanted to know that this is very difficult for me, very difficult. Yeah, me too, And I just I don't want to believe anything because I

1:07:51 feel like I love you, but no, I feel not like I think I do love you, chance like like I said, like my son, and I'm very worry, I'm urious, stress, and I'm very worry about everything. Well, I appreciate you're worrying about me and caring for me. I know. Yeah, the news has made it sound very bad, but just talking to my lawyers and everything, it's not. It's much different than the news. The news has putting a very bad spin on everything. I know. But hope you know that I just don't I don't know what happened, and I don't need everybody's has for their own reasons. Uh. I definitely can't talk about the case over the phone right right, but I wanted to tell you that I everybody have their own things, you know, and my thing is that I care about my daughter very very much, and I care about you and the times that you were here and the times that I make Christmas and the times that you you know that you smile and like that.

1:09:28 Like like I say, I can't say anything better about about this boy because he you don't. I just can't say anything. I appreciate it. Yeah, that's that's patter. That one of the good things I've got going for me. I haven't caused too much trouble. Well, did you take care of yourself and I was taking care of my Captaine. I appreciate it. Thank you, and whatever happened, whatever whatever happens, I'm here.

1:10:16 Thank you. Thank you for that is really nice. Well, I always think that, you know, I know you're trying. Yeah, you know, I just don't want to hurt your feelings, so say something iCal. No, it's fine, I understand because yeah, I've seen the news as well, so I haven't seen it though I not allow myself to see anything.

1:10:58 There's definitely two sides to a coin. Definitely, I love you. Thank you for letting me call. I'll be on the so the message me yes, yes, yes, and don't and I will try and to see if for some for somehow I can't try and to you to hammer stand. Okay, thank you and you're very welcome, right, Please don't feel don't feel don't feel alone. Okay, Guys to me or talk to me if you need to talk to someone, talk to me for sure. Yeah.

1:11:49 Call just gets expensive. So I know, you know, I see if my husband family didn't want to hear from him, did didn't want to talk to him, and didn't never want to visit him, and he just steal you know, he just come at some all the different things. But I know, I know how family can you know, can be no. I understand why my mind isn't they've heard what the news. News isn't good.

1:12:30 I haven't heard my side because my lawyers told me not to say my side to anybody. Yep, yep, don't say anything until you have to say it. Yeah, yep. And in the meantime, I haven't heard the news. But until the meantime you can. You can come unan yep you need if you need to call me and mad you need to see me, just I will come. I'm a mom, you know, m h. I appreciate it, and I'm missing Mexican, so we m We love our children's unconditionally. It would be nice if they let us bring They let you bring food in because you're cooking is one of the things I miss. Okay, well, I do you know what I miss? I miss her?

1:13:31 Do you remember when I'm trying to learn how to do the screen role? Oh? Yeah, and then you make this just the little yeah, A dark side God,