S11, Chapter 9: Where Was Cat?

0:05 Tapes from the Dark Side contains descriptions of violence and sexuality. Listener discretion is advised. I have a confession to make a messed up. There's a part in the last episode that I got in correct. It doesn't actually change too much of the overall story, but it's a big enough detail that I feel the need to correct it. I even thought about going back and re editing chapter eight, but it's already out there in the world, and I don't want to make you have to re listen to anything. The mistake has to do with Chandler and his visit to Cres's farm. I mistakenly said that Chandler never admitted to going to Cres's farm on Monday, July fifth, the day after the Fourth of July barbecue. But Chandler actually does admit to this.

1:03 There was another part of the interview where he talks about showing up the farm and then turning around because he couldn't get in touch with Kres, and he says this actually happens on Wednesday, July seventh. That's the day where he said he's afraid that they might shoot him, and he says that Kres's dad actually shot at Buck when he was over ninety years old. I just assumed when hearing this it was likely just Chandler lying on the spot again. But randomly, when I was googling something about this case, I came across a newspaper clipping from twenty eighteen that said, quote Cottage Grove hunter ninety one bags buck with help from daughter. It has a picture of Krass with her father, And it turns out he actually did shoot a buck at ninety one years old. The fact that Chandler admits to visiting the farm on Monday and seeing Cres and Dulce makes a lot more sense. He knew that they were going to tell police that they saw him, so I couldn't figure out why he would lie about it, And it turns out the answer was for once, he didn't lie. This part of Chandler's interview or interrogation is also quite interesting, and I'm going to play for you now before we get into the rest of the episode. Well, at the end of the day on Monday, I did go for the afternoon. I did go to the farm to talk to Cress and Kat's mom. I told him what's happening with my mouth because

2:36 I had the appointment at two. Did you go to the farm before or after? Because I told them what happened to me, and I told them the legs are probably going to be permanent and the headaches should be fixed after the hemorrhage is cleared. A little bit. I talked to other mom and Cress together, and I think Cat's mom is alright with me. She's I don't know if she wants me to move into her the east side Cat's house instead paying rent as an apartment because she doesn't like to live at home. Does Cat live with their mom or Ka has an apartment? Okay somewhere.

3:22 Yeah, it's on It's by Mifflin the Party Avenue. It's by there. I'm they're talking to their mom and fresh. Then I go up to have you know, breakdown by their shed and they go swimming. Right by the swimming pool is the shed. So there they wanted to watch me, like, you know, breakdown and all that. So after I noticed they're just watching it, just walk over to them describe breakdown to me. Uh, I actually cried, started kicking grass. She's doing a toddler tantrum. Ship Then I hopped in the water with them. Okay, it was too late.

4:18 I was in the water and you realized Creston at the top, and that was uncomfortable. But I talked to them more and that's when she brought up the housing situation. How she doesn't like all my parents, like are I guess I don't know if she knows them. She doesn't know that well she's left them, Okay. Crest was saying that my cat's mom Cat's mom is speaks her first thought right away, so she's so they're offering me to get a job, live with them, work for while I'm working, and pay rent, and that's kind of their their deal. I would have like a month for your friend there, a month or two maybe if if they're thinking where Sunday so you're swimming, they were going to break down? What were you having a breakdown about? You ever have your legs? I don't know. I haven't just I don't even know if they're done eating, like as bad as they can be yet. So that's that's not fun. And I think you were telling me last night it was it's a symptom of a concussion, right, So that's not it. That's a it's a symptom of nerve damage from the hit spine, so it's permanent. I understand that, not the Yeah, so it's just legs. I think it's a waste feeling.

5:51 Is probably colossomy bag down the road and all of that. But here we are Sunday. Yeah, and then they're like, well appiche you stopping buy? So I head out and I go. It was Monday afternoon. I go to dinner at that cat's house on the east side. Okay, what time do you think that was? I had to be seven thirty I left the farm, which is Press's seven thirty pm. Okay, now that we cleared that up, let's charter forward. But first we'll quickly review all of the items that were found on Cress's property at Cottage Grove. The biggest fond was, of course bars torso. There were also the various saws and tree clippers that were found inside of a rusty oil barrel. And then days later, investigators found a plastic target bag filled with bloody rags and brillo pads near Cress's garbage and recycling cans. The target bag had a sticker on it, the kind that a store might slap on for an online pickup order, and the name on that sticker was Catherine Melender. You're looking at the garbage cans at the start of the driveway with the target bag located inside the garbage can in front of it. Was it the only item that was in that garbage can? Yes, it was. That is the sticker that was on the outside of the target bag that has a Malender. Kammas see as the

7:26 owner or excuse me, the person that would have picked up the property from target and I know from the investigation it's potentially Catherine Malender. Right when I opened up the bag, it was an immediate smell of what I described as cleaning material. The closest thing that came to my mind was like robbing alcohol, and then it was just overtaken by a rancid, putrid smell. There's a red substance there that we can see. Yes, what did that appear to be to you? There was a large amount of red and brownish substance. Through my training experience, I recognized this potentially blood out in the woods not far from Bart's torso. They also found a green garbage can that was filled with a bloody tarp. This tarp also had some pieces of yellow duct tape inside tape that would match a roll found in the Holderson house. The waste of Bart's body had been wrapped in a black nylon rope. His body was shirtless, but curiously, his pants were still on, well kind of.

8:33 They were covering his genitals, but cut at the same place where his legs were severed. Remember that this crime occurred in July, and months later in October, another huge discovery happened on Cres's farm. This was when she was cleaning out her shed. She noticed a set of boards propped up against the far wall, and behind those boards was one last gift a chandler had left for her on the same day that he had dumped his father's torso in her woods. Well, I was organizing along the wall, you know, like I say, I was cleaning out my shed, and I wanted to go through these like garden tools, because I, you know, making sure I still use them. Were they broken? And I was going to throw them away, so I would. And then I was organizing, putting lumber where the lumber goes, the recycling where the recycling goes. And so I lifted up a board and I saw a barrel of a gun, and I thought, huh. Right away I thought, what's my dad, What the heck has he got his pellet gun over here? So I picked it up by the barrel and looked at it, and I right away recognized it wasn't a gun that I'd ever saw or seen ever before. It just petty clear for the jury this kind before you lifted that was behind a board. Yes, it was behind us a bunch of There was like maybe four or five different boards there. Well, the first thing is I just felt sort of the sick feeling, and I set it back down, and then I went

10:05 to ask my father just to make sure that he didn't know about any gun in the shed. And I went and asked, and he said, well, what does it look like or whatever? And I said, well that I'm just going to call the police. And then I called Krista, the head of the investigation. She had left me in number, and I called her and spoke with her and told her what I'd found, and she told me that she was going to send somebody out. Bart's torso was transported to the Dane County Medical Examiner's office, where a number of facts were uncovered.

10:46 These helped to establish more precisely the manner in which bart Holderson was killed. The first order of business was to positively id the torso as belonging to Bart Holderson. Remember, there was no head, no limbs, and so this task was a little more time intensive than a usual id. So we often evaluate bodies that come in without an identity, and so often they will come with a presumed identity. In this case, we were told that they presumed identity of the body was Bart Halderson. We received imaging X rays of Bart Halderson that were taken while he was alive, and we then compared those to the X rays that we took of the body that we had in our office, and I found multiple points of concordance that identified this body scientifically as Bart Halderson. Once the idea was made, they examined the various bullet holes that riddled Bart's body and we're able to eventually establish roughly a manner of death.

11:48 The circles on the right are highlighting the severed femurs of the body. Basically, the body was dismembered with the lower limbs removed, and the circles show the terminal ends of the femur bones. So the circles on the top and the bottom highlight the severed upper extremities and the terminal ends of the humoroal bones. The circle on the left in the middle in between those two shows the neck or the base of the neck where the head has been severed. Slide six is a close a closer view of the left sided or superior or closer to the head gunshot entrance wound from the previous slide. And what when you look at a wound or an entrance wound or whatever sort of wound under a microscope, what are you looking for? So sometimes we can see soot with our eyes without any assistance because there's a black residue. However, in this case, there was decompositional artifact that obscured and discolored the areas. And when you looked at the wound that is pictured in slide six, what if any evidence did you find of soot? I did not find a microscopic evidence of soot in this injury. So what range do you put for this wound?

13:22 For this I have indeterminate range because I do not have characteristics that can tell me what the range is. Slide eight represents it's a similar photograph, but it highlights a different gunshot entrance wound. Okay, the one that's more on the right or lower in the back. That is correct. It is closer to the feet than the entrance wound that was previously discussed. And were you able to look microscopically for soot on this wound. I did. There were granular particles within the dermis on microscopy of the tissue I submitted here that were consistent with soot. Therefore, I assessed that as a contact range gunshot entrance wound. So there was soot on the skin. Yes, so contact range correct. And again going from back to front correct. Flight thirteen shows the base of the neck around the area of the right shoulder and it is a ragged defect that is circled in the center right above that scale, and it represents a possible entry or exit for additional for a third gunshot wound. Additionally, the bullet material that was found directly underneath it, it's going to be impossible to tell if that represents the entirety of the wound track or if there is tissue missing because of the proximity to the severed head. So one thing

14:56 that helps us determine whether or not an injury occurred before or after death is the presence or absence of a vital reaction or hemorrhage. So we've been talking about ME finding hemorrhage and areas of injury. In the areas where the gunshot entrance was were there was hemorrhage around it, indicating that the heart was beating when the when the individual shot. Where I recovered bullet fragments, there was hemorrhage or vital reactions surrounding that area. However, in the areas surrounding the dismembered limbs or the head, the upper extremities and the lower extremities, there were injuries, but I did not appreciate this vital reaction. I did not appreciate hemorrhage in the same way that I appreciated around the other injuries. So the mutilation occurred after death, that is correct. Doctor. Did you determine a cause of death for Bart Holderson? I did, and what was that cause of death? As written on page two of my report, I determined the cause of death was gunshot wounds of the torso. And did you determine a manner of death? I did, And what was the manner of death for Bart Holderson? As I'm reading from page two of my report, I assessed that the manner of death was homicide. While the medical examiner was able to establish a number of key facts regarding the manner in which Bart was killed,

16:26 there was still a lot that we didn't know. Which gunshot happened first, Were there more gunshots that might have hit other body parts? What was the caliber or type of firearm? Also? Where was the rest of Bart Holderson, and for that matter, where was Krystal Holderson. Police still had recovered no evidence of Christa Cottage Grove, and the hunt to find her body, dead or alive was still very much ongoing, matter how small and ultimately futile it would prove to be. At this point in the investigation, there was a sliver of hope that Christa might still be alive. Chandler and Kat were both interviewed on July eighth, but only one of them was arrested.

17:19 Cat was free, but word traveled fast, and it wasn't long before nearly everyone in town knew that she had been involved in what had essentially become a double homicide. She returned again to the police station, this time with a lawyer. Thanks for coming up appreciate it. Do it Okay, No, I'm doing a lot over the last few days. Has or not? Yea in a week this last time I sat in here. No, a week and a day. Thanks, And just so you know that it's not lost on us how hard it's probably been for you and a lot of other people too, So we're very appreciative of that. So just you know, know that when we're meeting that, you know, we keep that in mind that we do appreciate the stuff that you're probably going through. Are you sleeping Okay?

18:21 Not really to put me on some stuff to hope it's it's really anxiety and stuff and like sleep, but it's not really doing it. And then Daniel sent me up with trying to talk to some trauma therapists and it gave me something for appetite, but that's also not really helping. So it's just been a lot. Well yeah, and you know, give give your body a break to like it's okay. I mean, it's a normal thing, but it stinks obviously, but obviously some days gonna better than others, and you know it's okay not to be okay, especially under these circumstances. It's just if it gets to be too bad. I hope you would reach out to someone you know. Yeah, Can I ask one thing up front?

19:02 Is there any way you guys can change the narrative and the sheriff, even if it may not be fully true, to indicate that she's not the girlfriend's not a suspect, and that she's not somehow somebody suspect unless you can tell me we do suspect that, because it's just hard. I mean, she's twenty years old, two years out of high school, and her phone's just blowing up. I've told her and I think she's followed my advice to shut down Facebook, to shut down everything that's a social platform, which is getting all kinds of friends of Oh my gosh, I saw what happened with Chandler. What can I do to help you? Let me come talk to you, let me come spend time with you in those things. So, and it got worse yesterday after the sheriff had the press conference and the last question he took was is the girlfriend somebody that you're pursuing? And you don't really answer the club Well, he kind of dodged the question, which I watched it, and that's why I'm saying, is you know, just for her benefit if the answer could be at this time she's not. I said, don care if she I do care if she has to answer that, but just not to leave that suspicion out. Sure, when you look, I can look at that. I'll talk to our PO and see if we can, moving forward, change our language up a little bit. I would appreciate.

20:14 I don't think that's not reasonable at all. So far, we reviewed extensively where Chandler Holderson was on July first, shooting his parents and then chopping up their bodies. Let's establish where Kat Melender was in this timelot. You're listening to tapes from the dark Side. We'll take a quick break and when we come back. So the picture that you have, yes, that's a promiscuous one. So I'm not trying to be intrusive or anything, but I mean, is there a time stamp on there or anything? Yeah, the promiscuous one is from Don't Go Anywhere. Let's start with Thursday, July first, the day that Chandler Holderson killed his parents. Yes, that was Thursday.

21:11 So you indicate that you worked till five that day, which I think is normal. Correct. There's also Hella, excuse my friend cameras in the pharmacy, and if you ask for like the time I clocked out, they could definitely give it to you. Okay, let's get you know, because I have to manually sign in on the computer every time and it's down to the second. So that would have been a Thursday. What did you do that evening? Did you Did you go to your apartment, your mom's, Chandler's or someplace else. I think I was at my apartment. Let me check. I usually it's weird. I almost always say everything on Snapchat, and so like, if there's something I don't recall, I try to check there first. I think I went home for that one because on the second in the morning, there's a promiscuous photo of me on my bed sheets and they're the ones at my apartment. So I was there Thursday night, and yeah, I remember staying there, meaning you at your place, the sublet place. Yeah, so the picture that you have, yes, that's a promiscuous one. So I'm not trying to be intrusive or anything, but I mean, is there a time stamp on there or anything? Yeah, the promiscuous one is from Friday morning when I was getting ready for work. Like

22:44 before, I was getting ready for work. It was July second, at seven thirty five am, because I didn't work till eight thirty. Do might offend? Just verify that? Do you can cover with your pumb if you want like that? You can see the jimipe okay. And you said you could see your sheets though, yeah, and something. Yeah, you might see a little bit in the bold. But you see in the corner, how there's bumblebees. How about we want yeah, please took your hand off and let it. How about we won't look and you can just take it, okay. So that's the bumblebees yep. And you see that quilt right there, that's my top sheet pretty much. It's like a cast I don't know if you shot have a target, but it's castaloona knitted okay, And so it's like my knitted like it. I haven't even taken it from my apartment and I haven't changed the sheets or anything. Okay. So Thursday, July first, Kat gets off work around five pm and she drives home.

23:41 All of the security camera footage that police gathered supports this cat had to be back at work at eight thirty am the next day, and at seven thirty five am, she sent a nude picture through Snapchat to her boyfriend Chandler. The print of the bed sheets on her bed confirmed that this was where she was when she sent the picture. On the first we noticed that you face time with the Chandler. We face time almost every night. Okay, we know you did that day, and we'll just assume you did every other day too. But anyway, pretty much looks like from we've noticed a screenshot because I actually was the one that downloaded your phone, but only on the days that you ask you authorized to be clear whatever, none of my business.

24:30 But anyway, he's in the shower in that one. Okay, yeah, we do that quite often, Like we'll set it up for like taking a shower. That's fine. My question is just do you ever like what his demeanor was or like, was he different than usual or anything like that? No, just like tires, We were like joking, remember you know, we were joking as usual, talking about our days. Yeah, do you remember what he talked about, like when he did that day or anything?

25:12 Not really, Sorry, Usually I mute myself and that's like around the time his parents are usually home, So like I muted myself and then like he was trying to talk to me and I was like, he was like, no, it's fine, they're not home right now. I don't know if you mentioned they are doing like a pickup because Ms. Holderson she's really scared of coronavirus, so she would just do pickups like everywhere, and miss it wasn't unusual for mister or missus Holderson to do a store pickup. I think he mentioned that, give me like I pick up when you buy stuff. Yeah, like you forget that happy hit pickup. So I remember him mentioning that, and I think I was unmuted when we were talking. Yeah, she makes another mistake. He tells Kat that she doesn't have to put herself on mute because his parents weren't home yet. When he was interviewed by police, he stated they all ate dinner together and never mentioned either of them leaving the house that night. According to Chandler, this was also the night of the so called shrimpless scampy, not that it really matters, but scampy means shrimp in Italian, so the term shrimpless scampy makes no sense. Then we just kind of hung out and my mom gets home. And I start the I start shrimp scampy for my dad because that's what he wanted, but we didn't have shrimp, so I made shrimpless scampy. At around seven forty nine

26:45 pm, Chandler and Kat FaceTime. Well, Chandler is taking a shower and I can help. But wonder if he might have needed two showers that night because the plans he had for his parents after chopped up their bodies, well, if things were already messy, they were only going to get more. So he goes on. Him and his dad would go on bike rides, like from their house, like they talk about like a path they go on, and like they take walks there too, like the three of them with his mom and dad. So was he a swimmer? Yeah, he swim it states his mom would take hims like every he like varsity freshman year, many medals. Okay, yeah, super good swimming. That's where you just set them, I'm assuming. Yeah. He was also a lifeguard and he did diving. So for myself and I think many others, this is the fasting thing about this case. Bart and Crystal Holderson not abusive parents. Quite the contrary. They were the kind of parents that almost any kid would dream of having. Their only crime was loving their kid and perhaps trusting him too

28:17 much. And make no mistake, this was not a clever crime. This was not an impressive crime. This was a pathetic, sloppy, ugly murder. And what was about to come next for the bodies of Bart and Crystal Holderson was possibly the most offensive part of the whole damn thing. Coming up on the next episode of Tapes from the Dark Side. Order that was more like in the line of when I thought someone was like barbecue a large pork, like in one of these large barbeque barbecue pits or whatever that can hold a whole pork. Before you turn off this podcast, I have one thing to ask of you. If you enjoy Tapes from the Dark Side, consider joining our Patreon. You don't have to do it, just consider it.

29:33 I said that last week and it seemed to work, so saying it again this week. Maybe it just worked because it was my birthday. But anyways, we have a couple of membership tiers you can cancel any time, and I have to say this, I truly do not take it personally. If you come for one month and then leave, sign up as easy it takes less than a minute, and it's all at patreon dot com slash Tapes from the Dark Side. What you'll get in return is our Premium feed, which means your own unique RSS feed that is tied to your account and will give you access to every single episode we've ever released, including our new series called Night Terrors, which are one off true crime episodes. You'll also get everything add free and in boosted audio quality. The normal feed is usually about two hundred kilobytes per second, and this feed is at the maximum three hundred and twenty kbps. Now I have to add if you're struggling financially, I don't want you to sign up. In fact, if you are struggling financially, message me on Instagram at the Dark Side Pod, and I'll give you all of our Night Terror episodes for free. In return, you have to promise me that if you win the lotto or something like that, then you'll join Patreon. The last thing I'll say is that we're an independent podcast. We don't have any sponsors, although that would be cool maybe one day. Even

31:07 if we did have a sponsor. Part of having Patreon support means that I don't have to rely on anyone else to dictate what material I can or can't cover. I think that's a big part of why people enjoy Tapes from the Dark Side, and I know that's why I enjoy making it. I really do rely on you to help me keep the show going. So if you enjoy my podcast, I hope you'll consider joining Patreon again. That's patreon dot com slash Tapes from the Dark Side. We have a few new Patreon dark Siders this week. I truly am humbled by your support. Please know that every time someone joins, I see your name pop up on my phone and it makes my day. Thank you to Becky, Missola, Kate Porter, Leah Baron, Laura Hart, Deborah Roberts and Kaufman, Lizzie Crowley, Anna Curtis, Brittany Benson, Sherm Cohen, Heather Bulford, Jada Flowers, Craig Money, Mulla Nix, Chris Hutchings, Denise Williams, Melinda t Peca p pim T, Shawna Dinzart, Dominique Scott, and Shauna with a w Thank you to our producers, who we credit at the end of each episode.

32:39 Our newest producers are Jesse Bateman, Mariah c Joyce Loveless and Monique Wilkinson. And a huge thank you to all of our producers Jamie Hill and Belina, Jeff Long, Teddy Redmond, Melinda Muharemovic, Jason Irvin, Jessica Cooper, Fiona Gibson, Jody C Sundean, I'll s Catalon, Malory Bitterman, Santana Savine, Vanessa Miller, Jonathan Cox, Gino Ay, Bunco, Tyler Ernster, Sherry Sly, Shelley Jones, Alexis Kathleen and Greg b. Thank you to Augusta Trevororam who has created original music for our show. All of his links are in the show notes. And until next time, try to enjoy the daylight. When you were at Gander's house, do you normally have fans going or anything? Ceiling fans or anything like that? We already got that.

34:08 Where was I Commay likes to keep them on? Okay, it's like so hot, Yes, yes, I remember that. I think I was writing at the time, but I do remember that. Now. You rather have that than the air conditioning, the one air conditioner, no central air, okay, assumes it would have central. It's they're like updating everything, so like it was older, I believed, and like they were just doing everything little by little and she was getting like they ordered new windows in for like September and like, so the only air was like in the kitchen.

34:50 She rarely put it on unless it was like a scortcher because you know, they're border colleagues are a dark side. God n